Evidence for God from Science

neo-x wrote:Phillip, I don't take anything from you and I can say that you were one of the few people who defended me and approached me. So believe me there is nothing personal here. If there had been I would have gone silent. But to be honest I'm just fed up, my friend. Its not you, my words led k this morning into a small heated exchange.

Hi Neo-x,

For myself, Scripture has nothing to do with what I was asking of you really.
I've stated numerous times one can look to Habermaus and treat the books in our Bible separately in a historical-critical way.
You can still get to Christ that way, by no means taking Scripture as the "Word of God".
SO, that challenging your Christianity because you don't believe in or accept the protestant canon of Scripture was completely not the case, when you felt attacked and I snapped back.

Rather, I see people often hold incoherent beliefs.
I am a big believer in making my beliefs as coherent as possible.
Our beliefs that we hold may contradict each other, and where they do, we should reflect upon them and remove that contradiction.
As a Christian, and someone that respects the mind and reason, I feel it's like my duty to analyse where my beliefs contradict and work them out.

For example, Jac raised some valid points which appeared to show some inconsistency to my own beliefs.
So I actually took an hour out to unpack what was being said and pinpoint what the issues seemed to be.
Then I saw the issues, and against the fuller scope of my beliefs saw that there really wasn't an inconsistency.
Jac still thinks otherwise, but @Jac -- I don't believe God interjects Himself here and there but lives with us in time sustaining everything in existence including continuing time itself.

So when you stated that you do not believe God was involved with making this universe or life, that such is unguided, then such as belief as I see it contradicts Theism itself (not Scripture, but reason). Others tended to see an inconsistency here too, but none called you non-Christian from what I can see and certainly not myself.

Rather either I misunderstand what you meant, or this is just an incoherent part of your beliefs that perhaps you haven't fully reflected upon.
OR perhaps it just doesn't matter to you, because by taking the most extreme position possible you are in a way putting on steel armor to ensure your most fundamental beliefs in God and Christ can't be taken away by some future discovery. So it's kind of like a defense mechanism.
Your further words along the lines that God may intervene here, but you don't see it is necessary, seem to suggest to me that you are simply allowing for a worst-case scenario should it be somehow discovered God is absolutely not needed for our universe or life.
Or perhaps I'm here just over-thinking you and your beliefs.

So that is what I was getting at when you felt your Christianity was under attack.
In actuality, I was wanting you to reflect upon you said regarding God doesn't need to be involved and Theism itself.

Hope that makes sense and I haven't come across wrong again.

neo-x wrote:

RickD wrote:Neo,

As a believer living in the relative safety of the United States, I cannot imagine what believers in your country go through on a daily basis.

I hope you don't mind me praying for you and your family's safety. And that God through the Holy Spirit, will strengthen your faith, even with what you're living through.

Whether we are going through simple trials and problems that life brings, or going through life in fear of our lives or our family's lives, the only constant in it all is that God will never leave us. Even when it seems He's not there.

Thank you, prayers are needed. Anyone who can, please remember your brothers and sisters in places where the name of Christ can still have you get killed. Thanks.

Can I visit?

I think it needs to be pointed out that in genesis 1 the only time God creates is when he first created the heavens and earth and when he creates certian life in this world everything else he made which means it was already there like the sun,moon and stars they were made not created on day 4. There is a difference between create and made.

I believe in Genesis 1:1 when it says God created the heavens and earth,heavens includes the sun,moon,stars,planets,etc and so they were already there on day 4 when God made them to shine on the earth again.

Kurieuo wrote:

neo-x wrote:Phillip, I don't take anything from you and I can say that you were one of the few people who defended me and approached me. So believe me there is nothing personal here. If there had been I would have gone silent. But to be honest I'm just fed up, my friend. Its not you, my words led k this morning into a small heated exchange.

Hi Neo-x,

For myself, Scripture has nothing to do with what I was asking of you really.
I've stated numerous times one can look to Habermaus and treat the books in our Bible separately in a historical-critical way.
You can still get to Christ that way, by no means taking Scripture as the "Word of God".
SO, that challenging your Christianity because you don't believe in or accept the protestant canon of Scripture was completely not the case, when you felt attacked and I snapped back.

Rather, I see people often hold incoherent beliefs.
I am a big believer in making my beliefs as coherent as possible.
Our beliefs that we hold may contradict each other, and where they do, we should reflect upon them and remove that contradiction.
As a Christian, and someone that respects the mind and reason, I feel it's like my duty to analyse where my beliefs contradict and work them out.

For example, Jac raised some valid points which appeared to show some inconsistency to my own beliefs.
So I actually took an hour out to unpack what was being said and pinpoint what the issues seemed to be.
Then I saw the issues, and against the fuller scope of my beliefs saw that there really wasn't an inconsistency.
Jac still thinks otherwise, but @Jac -- I don't believe God interjects Himself here and there but lives with us in time sustaining everything in existence including continuing time itself.

So when you stated that you do not believe God was involved with making this universe or life, that such is unguided, then such as belief as I see it contradicts Theism itself (not Scripture, but reason). Others tended to see an inconsistency here too, but none called you non-Christian from what I can see and certainly not myself.

Rather either I misunderstand what you meant, or this is just an incoherent part of your beliefs that perhaps you haven't fully reflected upon.
OR perhaps it just doesn't matter to you, because by taking the most extreme position possible you are in a way putting on steel armor to ensure your most fundamental beliefs in God and Christ can't be taken away by some future discovery. So it's kind of like a defense mechanism.
Your further words along the lines that God may intervene here, but you don't see it is necessary, seem to suggest to me that you are simply allowing for a worst-case scenario should it be somehow discovered God is absolutely not needed for our universe or life.
Or perhaps I'm here just over-thinking you and your beliefs.

So that is what I was getting at when you felt your Christianity was under attack.
In actuality, I was wanting you to reflect upon you said regarding God doesn't need to be involved and Theism itself.

Hope that makes sense and I haven't come across wrong again.

Some very nice observations K. I appreciate it.

I will try to respond later tonight. God bless you.

Kurieuo wrote:

neo-x wrote:

RickD wrote:Neo,

As a believer living in the relative safety of the United States, I cannot imagine what believers in your country go through on a daily basis.

I hope you don't mind me praying for you and your family's safety. And that God through the Holy Spirit, will strengthen your faith, even with what you're living through.

Whether we are going through simple trials and problems that life brings, or going through life in fear of our lives or our family's lives, the only constant in it all is that God will never leave us. Even when it seems He's not there.

Thank you, prayers are needed. Anyone who can, please remember your brothers and sisters in places where the name of Christ can still have you get killed. Thanks.

Can I visit?

Yes you can.

Jac3510 wrote:Paul, I didn't say you didn't read my words. I said you missed my point. You did not respond to my point.

And Rick, if you don't want to press it any further, that's fine. I don't know what possible issues it could bring up, but that's okay.

Small illustration, Jac:

A: Bah, hogwash
B: Now that is nonsense indeed

I'm confused, Hana. Can you clarify?

Jac3510 wrote:I'm confused, Hana. Can you clarify?

I will pm you.

1over137 wrote:

Jac3510 wrote:I'm confused, Hana. Can you clarify?

I will pm you.

If it's anything juicy, please fill us all in.
I was brought up to believe telling secrets at the table is impolite.

Jac3510 wrote:I'm confused, Hana. Can you clarify?

I am a woman.

(That maybe says it all.)

No, not a woman. The woman. The Queen, even!

I have one comment separate from my post. it is about who satin is the bible tells us who he is it says he is a fallen angel not a ruler of earth.
Now back to my comment. There are ways you can see by reading genesis 1 that man didn't come from other animals because it says that the earth brought forth animals after its kind. so he didn't let animals evolve into other kinds of animals cats were created and they brought forth more cats and dogs were created and they brought forth more dogs and so on and so forth. then God said lets make man in our image and to rule over everything that was created which implies that they were not created yet. To say they came from animals is reading into it and changing what is really says. God gives no room for evolution in any way. Because he told us the time that it took for these thing to take places. The bible says it took 6 days to create the earth and all that is in it. We know that it was literally 6 day because he says the morning and the evening was the first day and the morning and the evening was the second day so on and so forth. which can only mean each day was only one full day. There was no mention of multiple morning or evenings at all just one morning and one evening for each day.