Evidence for God from Science

Audie wrote:

crochet1949 wrote: There is So much being done in the world today to discredit the Bible. .

Do you think that is why those things like phony miracle cures are being done?

I can think of much more obvious and financially sound reasons.

Ever think that anything you take part in might also bring discredit?

Nope! If you saw a demon get cast out of a person like I did,and you saw the demon manifest and control the persons body,heard the demon speak and scream,noticed it was afraid of Jesus,knew who Jesus is and you saw it get cast out in the name of Jesus you would know what I know. It is not just written in the bible for nothing,it is real. You have not seen it.I thought kinda like you before I saw it.I was raised up in a Baptist church and so never got to see a demon get cast out of somebody.

Jac3510 wrote:

Audie wrote:The outlandish fakery of many nominal Christians is very disturbing. I can well understand the yearning of many for purity in their church, seeing the maggot ridden mass of corruption that
so much of it is.

Of course, Talibans think that way too. Purity, purity.

Matt 13:24-30

If I'm understanding the parable correctly, it's referring to bad seed among the good, or perhaps that Satan has planted many within to lead people astray(cults, false doctrine) and many that give a bad look to christ

Crochet: Philip
I've known for Fact a situation with my brother-in-law from many years ago. He was bleeding internally and it couldn't be stopped by the surgeon. He was opened up and they were basically just watching when the bleeding gradually stopped. There was no reason it Should have , but it Did. Those Around him knew about it.

Which I have no reason to doubt - in fact, I EXPECT to hear of such because I believe and have witnessed that God STILL does miracles!

Crochet: And, on FB there have been videos of a lady rescued from her sinking car. All four of her car windows were Up -- she Should have drowned -- but someone was feeling around under the water and felt an arm. The windows were still Up when the car was pulled out of the water. HOW did she get Out?! Even the people who rescued her said that something strange happened under the water.

And there have been other medical situations -- a brain surgery that Was about to be done -- one last look at the brain scan But there was No sign of the tumor that HAD BEEN THERE. A miracle , Yes.

Again - no reason to doubt such. I've heard many such stories from people I consider completely credible.

Crochet: A Lot of churches these days do not teach much Bible. And there is such skepticism about Anything religious -- people Don't appreciate being ridiculed regarding what happened in their personal lives.

But this has absolutely nothing to do with what I am skeptical of: "Our church has a lady named Sister Sally, and she has miraculously healed so many - she's known far and wide as a gifted healer!" THIS is the kind of stuff I am hyper skeptical over. AS well: "Brother Billy is known to have prophetic ability, and has consistently and accurately predicted so many incredible things." I need to see if Bro Bill and I can have a meeting with my stock broker - maybe he has a "word of knowledge" that's a winner - if so, I'll cut him a good deal!

REAL healers and REAL prophets don't smell bad - that is, it is CLEAR and provable that they have done what people say they have - at least if we're talking about the kinds of miraculous displays of God found in the New Testament, per Jesus and the Apostles. When the Apostle Paul referenced the miraculous when witnessing, he was appealing to things known far and wide - not things done off in some dark corner, or ONLY amongst Believers. He referenced people and events that could be verified. And so I see no reason why the same level of accountability for claims would not exist for current such claims. And THAT is the problem I have. People claiming such things tend to assert that it's not necessary to PROVE, or that "it doesn't work like that, etc."

Your last two paragraphs -- I understand what you are saying -- a lady being known as a gifted healer -- I too am skeptical of Anyone who is supposedly known as a gifted healer. The prophetic ability -- that's another kind of situation. A 'word of warning' to Christians, yes. But then again -- we Have God's Word in it's entirety. We can read what God has already Given us by way of Old Testament prophets. And New Testament guidelines. Heed that which we already Have.

Audie you are wrong Jesus is not in the business of proving anything to sinners. Look at what Jesus tried to prove to king Hared before the crucifixion nothing. He isn't trying to prove any thing to sinners He is trying to save sinners.

When He comes back sinners are all going to hell weather they believe in him or not. When I say belief here I am referring to the kind of belief demons have. Believing Jesus is real is one thing and believing in Jesus as your savior is something much better.

The bible talks about people wonting signs and it says He will not give them any

bringing someone to the doctor to prove a healing will not work. When Jesus healed someone it was according to there faith. So if you are wonting a healing to get faith it wont happen. You have to already have faith and basically to deny that the gift are presently work in Christians lives to day is to deny Jesus. Jesus said they were for those that believe and if they are not for those that believe but only for the Apostles then He lied and if He lied then He is not God.

jpbg wrote:
When He comes back sinners are all going to hell weather they believe in him or not. When I say belief here I am referring to the kind of belief demons have. Believing Jesus is real is one thing and believing in Jesus as your savior is something much better.

Please...just stop!

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Audie wrote:To those of us outside the church, talk of demon possession, miracle healings
(neither of which can actually be demonstrated to be real)
talking in tongues, taking up serpents, rolling about on the floor, and of course. such as a 6 day poof and the flood that can be demonstrated not to be real..all delivered betimes in a megachruch by some grifter some how does not make a positive impression. Like, "I want to join that club" No way.

The ones who think this is the pure stuff are just as convinced as the ones who think the church must be purged of all such impurities.

Christian talk of how you guys are tuned in to the ultimate realities just fall completely flat.

You need to work in the field of criminal justice or child protection and you would change your mind about demons at work on people or within people...

Also, I know of no snake handlers here - that is a rare group of people who do that. I did not know rolling on the floor was part of the Christian experience either.


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B. W. wrote:

Audie wrote:To those of us outside the church, talk of demon possession, miracle healings
(neither of which can actually be demonstrated to be real)
talking in tongues, taking up serpents, rolling about on the floor, and of course. such as a 6 day poof and the flood that can be demonstrated not to be real..all delivered betimes in a megachruch by some grifter some how does not make a positive impression. Like, "I want to join that club" No way.

The ones who think this is the pure stuff are just as convinced as the ones who think the church must be purged of all such impurities.

Christian talk of how you guys are tuned in to the ultimate realities just fall completely flat.

You need to work in the field of criminal justice or child protection and you would change your mind about demons at work on people or within people...

Also, I know of no snake handlers here - that is a rare group of people who do that. I did not know rolling on the floor was part of the Christian experience either.


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Not meaning to suggesr that we have snake handlers here, but skipping the quibble, you do see my idea, I trust.

My idea about humanity is that we have it in us to do the range of things for good or bad, that people have done without.any super natural intervention.

A horrendous personal experience didnt make me think the perp was demon possessed, nor did
my stepping back from suicide later when it seemed too much to bear make me think that anything supernatural stopped me.

So no, probably I'd not see demon possession.

Audie wrote:

B. W. wrote:

Audie wrote:To those of us outside the church, talk of demon possession, miracle healings
(neither of which can actually be demonstrated to be real)
talking in tongues, taking up serpents, rolling about on the floor, and of course. such as a 6 day poof and the flood that can be demonstrated not to be real..all delivered betimes in a megachruch by some grifter some how does not make a positive impression. Like, "I want to join that club" No way.

The ones who think this is the pure stuff are just as convinced as the ones who think the church must be purged of all such impurities.

Christian talk of how you guys are tuned in to the ultimate realities just fall completely flat.

You need to work in the field of criminal justice or child protection and you would change your mind about demons at work on people or within people...

Also, I know of no snake handlers here - that is a rare group of people who do that. I did not know rolling on the floor was part of the Christian experience either.


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Not meaning to suggesr that we have snake handlers here, but skipping the quibble, you do see my idea, I trust.

My idea about humanity is that we have it in us to do the range of things for good or bad, that people have done without.any super natural intervention.

A horrendous personal experience didnt make me think the perp was demon possessed, nor did
my stepping back from suicide later when it seemed too much to bear make me think that anything supernatural stopped me.

So no, probably I'd not see demon possession.

The Reason humanity Does have it within us to do both the good and the horrendously Bad is Because OF the influence of satan in this world. And, yes, it Does go back to the Garden of Eden -- Way back at the beginning of time -- Eve had lived in a perfect environment - created by God -- she had a Choice -- obey, believe God's Word or give in to satan's word. She followed satan and the sense of innocence was Gone. In comes crime and punishment.
The guy that attacked you , etc. he had Some sort of 'demon' within himself. Maybe not real demon possession, but his actions certainly were not Godly.
And what -pray tell - do you believe DID stop you from suicide -- it was Godly intervention. God was giving you another chance in life. You Might want to Thank Him for that.

RickD you said earlier you do not know about the end times so do not tell me I am wrong here. Because you obviously do not know.

I do know that when Jesus comes back that all sinners are not going start to hell right then. there are different events that happen after Jesus comes back. I was obviously only talking about what happens when time is over. I wasn't going into end times. I was referring to the fact that Christians go to heaven and sinners go to hell, and I do know what I am talking about. I was trying to make it easy for people like you who say they do not know the end times to read by leaving out the details of the end times.

jpbg33 wrote:RickD you said earlier you do not know about the end times so do not tell me I am wrong here. Because you obviously do not know.

I do know that when Jesus comes back that all sinners are not going start to hell right then. there are different events that happen after Jesus comes back. I was obviously only talking about what happens when time it over. I wasn't going into end times. I was referring to the fact that Christians go to heaven and sinners go to hell, and I do know what I am talking about. I was trying to make it easy for people like you who say they do not know the end times to read by leaving out the details of the end times.

You are right -- when Jesus comes back -- it will Not be heaven/ hell beginning right away.

First there is the rapture of the Church taking place -- which is talked about in Thessalonians -- in the twinkling of an eye -- there will be a shout / trumpet and all born-again believers will be taken up to meet Christ in the air. First those who are dead and then those who are alive. Which will leave everyone else here on earth.
-- then there will be 7 years of tribulation -- half-way into That is when the Anti-Christ will come into power. The last half will be the Great Tribulation.
-- then the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ will take place --Mt. of Olives -- and the Milenial Reign of Christ will take place. That will be 1,000 years of Jesus Christ being in charge of life here on earth -- and the believers who were raptured up will be reigning with Him.
--- during That time -- satan will be bound --so as to not create trouble.
-- but satan will be loosed for a time -- and there will be a final confrontation between God and satan -- Obviously God wins.
-- Then the Great White Throne Judgement takes place -- books are opened.
-- some of this is found in the final chapters of Revelation. Satan, false prophet and beasts are thrown into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone. As well as those who have Not accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior.

And there are various opinions about the above. There are Pre-Mid-Post Tribulationists as far as the timing of the rapture is concerned. And there are those who deny a future rapture.

And there are those who believe that the Bible is simply a collection of fables.

jpbg33 wrote:RickD you said earlier you do not know about the end times so do not tell me I am wrong here. Because you obviously do not know.

I do know that when Jesus comes back that all sinners are not going start to hell right then. there are different events that happen after Jesus comes back. I was obviously only talking about what happens when time is over. I wasn't going into end times. I was referring to the fact that Christians go to heaven and sinners go to hell, and I do know what I am talking about. I was trying to make it easy for people like you who say they do not know the end times to read by leaving out the details of the end times.

Just please stop. Every time you speak, it's just unintelligible gibberish.

When He comes back sinners are all going to hell weather they believe in him or not. When I say belief here I am referring to the kind of belief demons have. Believing Jesus is real is one thing and believing in Jesus as your savior is something much better.

This has to be one of the more ignorant paragraphs I've read in a long time. At least, since one of your other posts. You keep saying that you believe in the Bible, but you just said that sinners are going to hell weather(sic) they believe in him or not.

Biblical belief, is trust. So, anyone who believes in Christ, who trusts in him, has eternal life. Even the sinners.
John 3:16.

Rick, I think you should ban whoever started this stupid thread. That was just poor judgment on her part.

tunde1992 wrote:

Jac3510 wrote:

Audie wrote:The outlandish fakery of many nominal Christians is very disturbing. I can well understand the yearning of many for purity in their church, seeing the maggot ridden mass of corruption that
so much of it is.

Of course, Talibans think that way too. Purity, purity.

Matt 13:24-30

If I'm understanding the parable correctly, it's referring to bad seed among the good, or perhaps that Satan has planted many within to lead people astray(cults, false doctrine) and many that give a bad look to christ

I think that's more right than not. Regardless of the specifics (and I think we tend to get a bit too specific when interpreting the parables), the application here is that the church will never be "pure," and you do a lot more harm by shooting for purity. Heck, even Jesus tolerated a devil in his inner circle. Our job is to love unconditionally, to correct errors graciously where we encounter them, and to ultimately commit all judgment to Jesus. We'll only find purity after the resurrection. Until then, specks and logs and such things.

Jac3510 wrote:Rick, I think you should ban whoever started this stupid thread. That was just poor judgment on her part.

Oh you'd like that, wouldn't you? That way you wouldn't get to feed the trolls.