Evidence for God from Science

sorry, double post.

You double posted to say sorry for the double post?

Hortator wrote:You double posted to say sorry for the double post?

You can say that again.

JustHuman: Do you mean that "not knowing" automatically means it cannot be? As I do not know where all the material (energy?) came from with the Big Bang, you do not know where God got it from. It's the same, only different viewpoints.

But the issue at this point is, something had the energy - it'd didn't appear from "something" that never existed.

JustHuman: Only the last line I cannot agree with:

After all nothing cannot create anything at all...

That's a statement you cannot know. It might be true, it might not be true.

Hold on - are you saying it might be true that a non-existing "thing" can create something? That's illogical - it's "Pop Metaphysics!" With magic, a previously non-existing thing, without another cause, "pops" into existence, and then develops the capability to create other things - THAT is what you believe to be possible???!!! Flush rational thinking with that one!

Philip wrote:JustHuman: Do you mean that "not knowing" automatically means it cannot be? As I do not know where all the material (energy?) came from with the Big Bang, you do not know where God got it from. It's the same, only different viewpoints.

But the issue at this point is, something had the energy - it'd didn't appear from "something" that never existed.

JustHuman: Only the last line I cannot agree with:

After all nothing cannot create anything at all...

That's a statement you cannot know. It might be true, it might not be true.

Hold on - are you saying it might be true that a non-existing "thing" can create something? That's illogical - it's "Pop Metaphysics!" With magic, a previously non-existing thing, without another cause, "pops" into existence, and then develops the capability to create other things - THAT is what you believe to be possible???!!! Flush rational thinking with that one!

No, that's where you understand me wrong. You call it 'non-existing thing', but where did you get that 'thing' from? I never talked about it being a 'thing'. A thing implies something, and that's just what it might not be.
I possibly cannot know because noone witnessed the event of the Big Bang, and thus we (I) cannot know what was or was not before. Maybe there was nothing before, however illogical it might sound. We do not understand what really happened then. And that's no shame. Time and knowledge will tell, maybe, someday.

Justhuman wrote:

There is a massive amount of evidence Christianity is true but you being an atheist not caring if it is true or not don't take evidence seriously and since you just accept things that sound good to you without evidence you are not an evidence type person and so it won't sway you,until you get serious about evidence.If you have no way of knowing atheism is true then how could you pass up free salvation Jesus offers?It does not take much faith at all to believe God can do miracles if he created the entire universe and everything in it,miracles would be nothing for him.He could be born into this world the same way we are easily.

Dear Abelcainsbrother. You keep coming back about evidence for Christianity, but it is no evidence. Unless you qualify belief as evidence.
Being an atheist doesn't make me uncaring about the truth. I wish you could differentiate between 'not believing' and 'not caring'. Maybe it is impossible for you to think of anything else but your believe, or maybe YOU don't care about the atheistic viewpoint? What makes us different then?

It is because you don't care about evidence and I'm not going to have a one-sided debate presenting evidence when you have none.You accept things that sound good to you knowing you have noway of knowing it is true or not,so evidence Christianity is true won't sway you.You believe things like atheism that have no evidence behind it.When you get serious about evidence and choose not to give atheism a pass for not having any evidence let me know,but as long as you give atheists a pass when it comes to evidence you do not care about what is true or not,only what sounds good to you and Christianity does'nt sound good to you and so evidence does'nt matter.

Well... Abelcainsbrother, I think we possess about the same amount of stubborness, though I too think you disagree.

Justhuman wrote:Well... Abelcainsbrother, I think we possess about the same amount of stubborness, though I too think you disagree.

Well until you get serious about evidence and want to know you are right,giving evidence is pointless.I would like to give you evidence and I already have before but it is just like I'm saying,you don't care about evidence.And so there is no reason to get into evidence when you don't care if you are right or wrong.You need a desire to know you are right and you don't have that right now.You should have a desire to know you are right about the choices you make and have made.You are in a state of limbo until you die and won't know if you were right until then.

On the other hand not only do I know I have made the correct choice for me based on evidence I actually have evidence behind what I believe because I desire to know if I've made the right choice or not.You need this kind of a mentality and you don't have it right now.

Patients. For you.
https://youtu.be/SE9sPvam02w

Abelcainsbrother:

You need this kind of a mentality and you don't have it right now.

You don't know me and thus know nothing about my kind of mentality.

To turn the page onto a different topic, away from "free will" and that we really do influence our own actions and beliefs (rather than such being caused by "physical" events)... Here's another video, which really gets to the heart of explaining why Atheism, at least those who believe in Naturalism, is rationally self-defeating aka "irrational".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKX-QtEo2fI

Thank you Kurieuo, I sometimes get carried away in emotional response...

JustHuman: Thank you Kurieuo, I sometimes get carried away in emotional response...

Oh, I never do that!

Philip wrote:

JustHuman: Thank you Kurieuo, I sometimes get carried away in emotional response...

Oh, I never do that!

Don't worry Phil, there is tolerance here for people to get passionate and emotional.

JH, the last thing I'd want is for anyone to accept the often stated myth that makes me role my eyes when said, that one should ALWAYS avoid talking religion and politics. You'll notice many don't shy away from such on a board like this. Such things often run into more deeply held beliefs, and so aren't such important to discuss even if they get people upset or feeling hot and bothered? I think so. So long as one can do so with respect of the other.

Justhuman wrote:Abelcainsbrother:

You need this kind of a mentality and you don't have it right now.

You don't know me and thus know nothing about my kind of mentality.

I'm not judging you but based on how you have chosen to accept atheism when there is absolutely no evidence it is true then yes I can say that you don't care about evidence for what is true or not.It is based on what you have chosen to accept,it sounds good to you,but you have no way of knowing if you have made the right choice or not,until you die. A person who values evidence will not just accept things he/she has no way of knowing is true.

I'm not focusing on evidence when you don't really care about it,instead I'm trying to get you to think and realize how important it is to try to find out if you've made the right choice,to look at evidence and examine it and you have not did this or either you don't really care about it. My focus is first trying to get you to realize how important it is to know you made the correct choice because if you ever do you will drop atheism in a heart beat.You will know it is not true or there is no way to know.

Abelcainsbrother:

... I'm not focusing on evidence when you don't really care about it...

There you do it again!

And I repeat, you don't know me so know nothing about my (in this case) caring!

I think I'll leave it at at that (with you).