Kurieuo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:45 am
DBowling wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:39 am
Kurieuo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:33 am
As Rick mentioned earlier, Biden applied pressure to have a prosecuter fired. Here, in Biden's own words:
That is true... no one is disputing that...
So let me ask you the same question I asked Rick...
Do you dispute the factual accuracy of any of these three statements?
1. “Obama administration policy (not just ‘Biden policy’) to push for this Ukrainian general prosecutor to go” was “a shared view in many capitals, multilateral lending institutions, and pro-democratic Ukrainian civil society.”
2. There is no evidence that Hunter Biden was ever under investigation.
3. “The then-vice president issued his demands for greater anti-corruption measures by the Ukrainian government despite the possibility that those demands would actually increase – not lessen — the chances that Hunter Biden and Burisma would face legal trouble in Ukraine.”
Once the factual accuracy of the above three statements is established, then the lies and misinformation of the Trump narrative become apparent.
I really don't get the relevance of your three statements
OK... I'll try to spell it out in detail.
The false narrative being propagated by Trump and his misinformation machine is...
"Joe Biden fired a prosecutor (Shokin) to benefit his son"
Let's look at these statements one at a time to see how they demonstrate that Trump and his allies are spreading lies and misinformation regarding Biden and Ukraine.
A. Statement 1
“Obama administration policy (not just ‘Biden policy’) to push for this Ukrainian general prosecutor to go” was “a shared view in many capitals, multilateral lending institutions, and pro-democratic Ukrainian civil society.”
This demonstrates that Biden was executing the foreign policy of the United States and that foreign policy was the joint foreign policy of the EU as well as pro-democracy anti-corruption forces within Ukraine itself. This was not some effort on the part of Biden to protect his son as Trump falsely claims.
If you want to go down some sort of conspiracy theory path, that's fine. But the goal of any alleged conspiracy would involve US foreign policy goals in conjunction with EU foreign policy goals in conjunction with the goals of pro-democracy forces within Ukraine itself and would have nothing to do with protecting Hunter Biden's job at Burisma.
B. Statement 2
There is no evidence that Hunter Biden was ever under investigation.
This is one of the many fatal flaws to Trump's false narrative.
Hunter Biden was never under investigation. So there was no reason for Biden to take any action to benefit his son.
There had been a corruption investigation involving Mykola Zlochevskiy, the owner of Burisma, and his relationship with former President Yanukovych who was ousted from Ukraine and fled to Russia.
When Shokin (who had also worked for ousted President Yanukovych) became Inspector General he “dumped important criminal investigations on corruption associated with [former President Viktor] Yanukovych, including the Burisma case.”
Shokin had already halted the corruption investigation into Yanukovych and Burisma long before Biden presented the demands of the United States for Shokin to leave.
Hunter Biden was never under investigation, and Shokin had already stopped the investigation into Burisma long before Joe Biden made his demands. Which demonstrates yet again that the US Foreign Policy demands regarding Shokin had nothing to do with Hunter Biden.
C. Statement 3
“The then-vice president issued his demands for greater anti-corruption measures by the Ukrainian government despite the possibility that those demands would actually increase – not lessen — the chances that Hunter Biden and Burisma would face legal trouble in Ukraine.”
The reason that the United States, the EU, and pro-democracy forces in Ukraine wanted Shokin removed from the office of Inspector General was that he failed “to indict any major figures from the Yanukovych administration for corruption,”. And as I mention above, one of the investigations that Shokin dumped was the corruption investigation involving Mykola Zlochevskiy, the owner of Burisma, and his relationship with former President Yanukovych.
So the US was trying to pressure Shokin and the Ukraine into pursuing corruption investigations involving ousted President Yanukovych and his allies such as Mykola Zlochevskiy, the owner of Burisma. Which is just opposite of the false claims that Trump and his allies are trying to propagate.
This is why I maintain that once the factual accuracy of the above three statements is established, then the lies and misinformation of the Trump narrative become apparent.
