Evidence for God from Science

Hey Judah!

I'm glad you mentioned George MacDonald. I absolutely love Lilith for it's analogies to the "deeper Christian life," (my favorite parts concern the "tomb" with the couches.) Phantases was a good read and had some truth I could appreciate, but because he wrote it for money, (said so in the prelude or introduction!) I don't think it turned out near as good. If you liked that you really should try Lilith! (That is, if you haven't yet! )

G'day Kateliz

I have read "Lilith", and I am glad to have found another George MacDonald fan too. I don't know too many others who are prepared to read a 19th century Scottish author, but I must admit that appart from those two books, most of his novels that I have read are the edited versions of Michael Phillips. I loved "The Curate of Glaston". Have you read that?
Anyway, very pleased to meet you.

I haven't read any of his other than those two. Never even heard of any others, I think. Got any recommendations? And are most of his books fantasies like those two? What are his books generally like? I'd also be interested in a biography, or, of course, autobiography, if you could refer me to one!

My favorite books are Christian classics from the 1800s. Why have we dumbed down from then? Just language itself was so much more intelligent! I'd love to get the hang of it for myself.

George MacDonald is rather difficult to read if you pick up one of his original novels as he wrote in his native Scottish idiom.
Here is an example of what I mean from his novel Sir Gibbie:

Gien the j'ists be strang, an' well set intil the wa's, what for sudna ye tak the horse up the stair intil yer bedrooms? It'll be a' to the guid o' the wa's, for the weicht o' the beasts 'll be upo' them to haud them doon, an' the haill hoose again' the watter... I'm thinkin' we'll lowse them a' else; for the byre wa's 'ill gang afore the hoose.

Some people won't read translations and editions, preferring the original form or nothing at all, but if you are not such a purist, then you might like to read the George MacDonald works edited by Michael Phillips and published in your own home town by Bethany House, publishers.
There are a number of them (Curate of Glaston, Malcolm, The Poet and the Pauper, A Scottish Collection - all 2 or 3 novels in one volume) plus numerous other titles from other publishers as well.
I visit the USA frequently and know that these books can be found in your large chain bookstores.

Some website that may interest you and will give much more detailed info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_MacDonald
http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/gm/mcdnldov.html
Works by George MacDonald: http://www.ccel.org/m/macdonald/

I think that Phantastes and Lilith are in a class of their own although MacDonald's works all have that mythopaeic flavour about them. He writes many short fairy tales (for adults) but his novels tend to be straight novels with enlightened and insightful Christian themes.

I liked The Curate's Awakening (in Michael Phillips' The Curate of Glaston) as it is about a curate who has a very ho hum spiritual life but is honest enough with himself, and has the humility to accept some prompting from an unusual parishioner, and begins an amazing spiritual journey which is one I am sure you will recognize. MacDonald's own spirituality comes to the fore here.

OK, I had better hop off this thread before I get pushed off.
But you might say this is an Introduction to George MacDonald and therefore not entirely off topic.... er yes?

Hello

I am a member of abovetopsecret.com forum board (same username) and have been linking to and studying from the Evidence For GOD From Science homepage in disussions on Evolution, Creationism and Intelligent Design Theory. Can't believe i never noticed this forum before.

Anyways a little about me. I am 29 married with two children (3&5) amatuer musician (guitar). Consider myself an Old-Earth Creationist and Intelligent Design Theory proponent (layman). I have only been Christian for about 5 years or so. I'm am looking forward to getting to know you guys and learning by/with you through discussion.

Hope to see you around
God Bless
Rren

Warm welcomes to both Rren and Judah. Hope you both find the time to stick around and contribute.

Hey Rren! You know, I've been doing the opposite of what you've been doing- writing to the discussion board and not reading the homepage's articles! I had the intentions, but then I spent all my time here. I really should go back and look some of those over.


Judah, I thank you very much for that "introduction to George MacDonald." I couldn't see on my books that they were edited at all, but I'm glad they are! I don't think I understood half of that quote you gave!

Both of my copies turn out to be from Wm. B. Eerdman's Publishing Co, whoever they are, but yes come from a large chain. Well, one of them. Lilith I actually got from a cousin who picked it up at some kind of a book swap in '88 for $1.50. It's funny, he never read it in all that time, (I've only had it at most four years,) yet kept it, and I happened upon it while helping him move and was oddly very attracted to it for no reason I can pin down. It has greatly contributed to my spiritual journey- the same of which the book is an analogy. When I discovered that analogy, (probably at the tomb with couches,) I was extrememly delighted and felt as if the book was a gift from God, (which it was,) procured for me in an unusual manner! Much of the analogies are hard to decipher though. I should try to find them out.

Judah wrote:an amazing spiritual journey which is one I am sure you will recognize. MacDonald's own spirituality comes to the fore here.

Tell me you know something about for yourself! I haven't met another living soul who's truly on that journey, (if that's the same one described in Lilith. It's very sad, I've recently read about how so many denominations held to the teaching of that journey at least in the mid 1800s. Why have we lost it so completely so quickly???

Anyway, I'll check out those links you kindly provided, and also see about aquiring The Curate's Awakening/The Curate of Glaston.

Thanks for the welcome, Felgar.

Kateliz, quite a few of my George MacDonald novels are published by Eardmans, Grand Rapids, MI. And because I can read them, they have either been translated or edited (some by Glenn Edward Sadler).
I stumble incoherently over that quote above as well.

The journey I was speaking of is the one that occurs when a little living water is poured on the dry dust of a dormant faith. Yes, the curate awakens and starts to blossom once he lets the Master's wateringcan do the trick! I rather liked reading of his "awakening".

And yes, I can say that I got a little watering as well.

Now, who says "we" have lost anything? But you and I (and any others) had probably best continue this discussion on some other thread. I'm sure there is an approriate one here somewhere.

Glad to know I'm not alone in not being able to identify what MacDonald said there!

I don't think I'd want to start a thread on the specific journey that I meant. It'd probably end up like the thread on determinism- everyone against me and my feeling like no head-way was made!

But if someone out there knows what I'm talking about, (and they would if they knew about it,) then please pm me so we can talk!

Hello.

I am a programmer from England - although Welsh by nationality. I have a belief in the Christian Doctrine although whether I am "saved" or "born again" I am unsure. I guess I am am on a journey and am keen to see science and the Bible reconciled together. I have to take a scientific approach to my belief because although I envy the concept of "blind faith" I cannot bring myself to approach Christianity that way. I cannot and will not accept the alternative to there not being a God as it is all to horrible to contemplate. The idea of God visiting us on earth is such a wonderful ideal that I would for one like to believe it is true and am becoming more convinced of it everyday. Maybe there will come a time when I will be able to make that final leap of faith and be comfortable in my belief and have peace of mind.

Thankyou

Silvertusk.

Hello Silvertusk

Why do you need this "concept of blind faith" that you so envy?
What has it to do with Christianity?

The Greek word behind "faith" in the New Testament is pistis.
As a noun, pistis is a word that was used as a technical rhetorical term for forensic proof.

I understand that examples of this usage are found in the works of Aristotle and Quintiallian, and over 240 times in the New Testament.

Here is just one of those many examples, this one found in the passage Acts 2:22-36 for you to consider.

Peter's primary appeal in that particular passage was threefold:
He appealed to...
(1) the evidence of the wonders and signs performed by Jesus
(2) the empty tomb
(3) fulfillment of OT prophecy.
In short, his appeals were evidentiary.

Of course you might wish to dispute the validity of the evidence, but in context this is beside the point.
The point is that Peter grounded belief in Christianity on evidence -- or, as the definition of pistis in Acts 17:31 would put it, proofs.

I have quoted or paraphrased the above from a paper by James Patrick Holding entitled Fallacious Faith - Correcting an All-too-Common Misconception which you may read in full here.
He also gives other examples of the way the word "faith" is misused due to a lack of knowledge of it's meaning in Scriptural context.

Having said this here, I think it might be more appropriate to continue such a discussion on another thread more closely related to this subject, or to start a new thread in the relevant forum if you wish.

Welcome Silvertusk... My grandmother was welsh; her family moved over in the late 20's when she was a baby.

I think you are on the right track and if you keep exploring and learning about God, your faith will only be strengthened. At the end of the day though, even with doubts, what choice to we have but to stand in God's grace? Sure there may be doubts but if God is real then so is His mercy.

In the end I do think that everyone needs a reason to believe. For me, it's become obvious in looking back at my entire family and how God has influenced and blessed our family throughout my entire life... Others who may appear to have blind faith have likely been inlfuencd in ways that can't be understood without knowing them very closely. I guess my point is not to think less of your relationship with God just because there are doubts. Even the apostles had moments of doubt.

Hello. My name is Lavenderfire, and I am new here, no duh. I don't have much to say right now....so...uh...yeah.

~.:Lavenderfire:.~

Welcome Lavenderfire (and all previous who I haven't welcomed )

Kurieuo.

hi,

I'm Rebecca I came to this site because a very good friend of mine had this on his profile. I feel that you all helped him get closer to God, I really thank you all for what you have done for him.