Evidence for God from Science

touchingcloth wrote:

cslewislover wrote:Maybe you'll be the next Antony Flew.

What, and become a rather weak form of a deist when my mental faculties start to fail me somewhat?
Aye, maybe.

So why are you here? If you are honestly seeking for answers from persons that have faculties intact, then fine, of course. Please read the board purpose and guidelines.

BTW, his book, There Is A God, is finely written and shows no signs that the man has failed mental faculties.

cslewislover wrote:

touchingcloth wrote:

cslewislover wrote:Maybe you'll be the next Antony Flew.

What, and become a rather weak form of a deist when my mental faculties start to fail me somewhat?
Aye, maybe.

So why are you here? If you are honestly seeking for answers from persons that have faculties intact, then fine, of course. Please read the board purpose and guidelines.

BTW, his book, There Is A God, is finely written and shows no signs that the man has failed mental faculties.

I'm seeking discourse more than answers.
I'm a critical thinker so I'm looking for viewpoints, evidence and reason more than stock answers/soundbites.

Hopefully we can all increase each others' knowledge eh?

touchingcloth wrote:

cslewislover wrote:

touchingcloth wrote:

cslewislover wrote:Maybe you'll be the next Antony Flew.

What, and become a rather weak form of a deist when my mental faculties start to fail me somewhat?
Aye, maybe.

So why are you here? If you are honestly seeking for answers from persons that have faculties intact, then fine, of course. Please read the board purpose and guidelines.

BTW, his book, There Is A God, is finely written and shows no signs that the man has failed mental faculties.

I'm seeking discourse more than answers.
I'm a critical thinker so I'm looking for viewpoints, evidence and reason more than stock answers/soundbites.

Hopefully we can all increase each others' knowledge eh?

Shouldn't be hard in this age of knowledge; however, beware the ivory tower.

I was brought up Anglican, but I only went because my dad wanted me to go, there was nothing inspiring there for me so when I left for University I stopped going. While there I started to consider the purpose of my life, and realised I didn't have one that satisfied me, "the world was my oyster", but there was no pearl !

So when some people who obviously believed in the bible spoke to me I decided to investigate properly. I started going to various church meetings and was told to pray a “sinners prayer”, believing, and as such I was "a Christian". For the next 18 months I continued going to meetings and reading books by people considered to be "Christian leaders" to try and work out God's will for me, without success! All I got was opinions.

Then I met people who were not going to different churches and reading lots of books about God, they had a confidence and contentment I had not attained to, despite my efforts. I realised my relationship with God was mostly one-way, from me, not the daily, growing 2-way relationship they seemed to have.

They had received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (an unlearned prayer language that God leads his people in, cos only he knows his perfect will for us, it allows him to minister his grace & love to our hearts - 1 Cor. 14v2, 4; Jude 20-21). They also had other direct input and leading from God. After a while I realised I was getting nowhere spiritually so for the first time I actually prayed expecting God to *do* something... namely give me the same as them or whatever else I needed.

One evening I was alone in my room, not doubting or fearing, just believing God had said yes to me (because he could have no favourites), and wanting nothing more, I prayed and spoke in tongues and in the days that followed I realised I had the Life spoken of in the bible, whereas before I was trying to be something I was not ! I used to worry and get bored, now I see God opening my understanding about why things are the way they are, and more importantly, what life can be like.

I left the old churches because I could see they was as I was before, not as I wanted to be. The church I'm now in is like the one in the new testament, all members have the new Life, we have a unity I never found before. I now have contentment and fulfilling purpose that only the living God can give. Everything else is shallow by comparison, I can no longer believe in the alternative "lifestyles". I am now able to know God's thoughts and live according to His nature - because I have His heart and mind through the Holy Spirit in me.

Sounds like you have it all.

ageofknowledge wrote:Sounds like you have it all.

I do, and I've spent the last 22 years trying to tell others about it!

Sadly many would rather dwell in shadow-lands.

Jesus will return for a bride who has made herself bright by making best use of what he has made available.

He gave all, is it unreasonable to ask us to do this?

Why not visit our San Pedro meeting just once, or even just call Jim for a chat?

I've attended spirit filled pentecostal churches for years but also dwell in a land replete with shadows and am an authentic Christian. Tragedy, suffering, unmet expectations, deformity, sickness, lonliness, loss, rejection, abuse, failure, poverty, and many other shadows cast very real effects onto people and their lives. I've experienced allmost all of them over the course of fifty years. It sounds like you've not really experienced such things to the fullest. Like being prayed over for healing and annointed with oil for a year and then deforming and becoming sicker which means your ability to earn is erased in a material way forcing you to become a burden on people that don't want you. Oh yes... that's just one example. I've experienced many tragedies beyond my ability to resolve in a satisfactory way. I hope you never have to live through such things. But if you do we'll get a look at what you're really made of.

ageofknowledge wrote:I've attended spirit filled pentecostal churches for years . . . . what you're really made of.

Sounds like you are letting these things define you, i.e. they are more real than the wonderful things Jesus Christ says he has done or will do. . . these are the things that define me.
I deliberately won't say what I've been through, it's not my focus.

There is a guy at the San Pedro fellowship who is deformed with 40% burns. He sees it as what he needed to make him focus on God rather than himself. Instead of having an ordinary life he can now have an extra-ordinary one.

These is in fact a world of difference between us and many "spirit filled pentecostal churches". Some of the things they teach and do in meetings are wrong . . but they do not accept correction showing that they are following men and entertaining themselves, and not being taught of God. The undiscerning person will not see this.

Since you have been to these places for "years", it is unreasonable to suggest that you visit us once?

You may very well have a valid point. I'll try to work a visit into my calendar. I enjoy visiting different churches and increasing my understanding on how various groups of believers are living out their Christianity. In any event, welcome to the forum. Glad to have you. Grab up a chair... get comfortable... and peace.

My testimony is rather long I apologize in advance however I tell it to anyone who listen.I was greatly influenced from watching the movie "Easy Rider"and was already doing drugs and riding motorcycles when it came out.All through the 70's up until the mid 90's I was hard core in all my activities.Drugs,drinking,riding Harleys I had two and being a atheist I actually hated Christians.Psalms14:1 says only a fool say there is no GOD and that was me.

Then in the year 2000 46 years old still a fool I took a job driving a truck working for a Christian couple named Ken and Debbie Hamilton their company was called "Angelheart Transportation" I really needed the job bad because even the name made me uncomfortable but it was a really nice truck and a good job but I thought Debbie and Kenney were idiots as all Christians were.

Well after a few months went by the A/C went out on my truck and Kenney being the great guy he is told me instead of working on the truck he decided to trade it in on a new one and I could go pick up the new one in three days.

Well for three days in the motel I was in satan revealed himself to me by getting in my head with almost audible thoughts of why I should quit Angelheart like number one the name plus Ken was buying me a Freightliner not a Peterbuilt that I would prefer and satan reminded me over and over you don't like Christians!

On the third day Debbie called to say it was time to go get the new truck and I informed her I was quiting and I already had another job working for a guy who had a Peterbuilt for me to drive.Needless to say Debbie was disappointed and let me know it.The following day Kenney called me to tell me how much he appreciated the work I did for him and Debbie and offered himself for a good reference if I ever needed one.Kenney's kindness toward me made me feel so small Proverbs 25:22 All I could think about is difference between him and myself and how mad I would be if someone did to me what I did to them.

As fate would have it the A/C quit on the Peterbuilt I was now driving on my first trip out and it could not be repaired!We went into ten truck repair shops in one of the shops they replaced every component to a A/C and 40 miles later it was blowing hot air!All the time I was thinking what a jerk I was to Kenney and Debbie and how I could have been in a new truck.

Finally on the tenth shop a Peterbuilt shop in Tulsa,OK.after putting the truck in the shop I went across the highway to a Motel 6 after checking into my room instead of putting the red Gideon Bible into a drawer as I always did in the past I decided to look into it just to see if there was anything in it for me.

I remember before I opened the Bible that I still have to this day not even knowing how to pray.I said all right GOD if you have something for me show it to me now when I open it.The Bible feel opened to Psalms 73 and as I read it seemed to be my life's story especially the 22nd verse that declares "I was like a animal when apart from thee"that fit me to the letter.I prayed for salvation then however I don't think I received it then but I took the Bible with me and began reading it daily and asked for salvation daily and somewhere in the middle of John's gospel I realized I had my salvation was secured and did not need to ask for it anymore.

When I left Tulsa my A/C worked perfectly!Not long after I called Debbie and Kenney and told them of my decision and they were thrilled for me.I told Kenney his actions to me were the reason for my conversion he said he was just being truthful to me and had no expectations from it.Five years later I was being baptized in the Spavinaw creek that the Shepherd's Chapel uses by Pastor Dennis Murray. Kenney was there to photograph the event for me.Praise GOD!I love being on the right side with GOD and the TRUTH will and does set you free!

Thanks ezer for sharing!

And Welcome!

This one is a little unusual in this fast-moving information age.

"I was born and raised in the Blue Mountains of NSW (Australia) where I frew up on the family farm. From about 6 years of age, I had a deep awareness of God and a desire to follow him. On our farm my grandparents had built a church and I took it upon myself to keep it clean, get rid of the mice that his in the organ and so on! I attended as many services as I could (It was a Church of England).

As I grew up I was never quite satisfied with the Church. I cvould see form the bible that God's children enjoyed a lot more closeness to him than I did. So, after 30 years, I joined the Mission arm of the C of E believing this would bring me closer to him.

I became a full-time church worker for 5 years in the Kimberleys of WA. Here I was a missionary - supposedly telling others how to find God - and yet I still did not feel any closer to him myself!

We left there and ended up in Geraldton. I decided to leave the C of E. The Salvation Army seemed pretty active to I joined them. I was very busy in their "outreach" but, again, after 10 years of this I was left feeling disillusioned.

When we moved down to Mandurah I was 63 and decided to give up looking for God in the churches. God would have to find me.

After 12 months of just praying at home and reading my Bible, someone from the Revival Fellowship put a leaflet in my letterbox. I went to the advertised meeting and was amazed to hear for the first time such a simple salvation message: repent, be baptised and receive the Holy Spirit". It seemed too easy but I was baptised soon after. I prayed for about 3 months (I must have said a million Hallelujahs!) until finally I was filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues. It was something that you can't explain to someone that hasn't experienced it. It was pure peace and joy."
Praise the Lord
(Doug)

I'm an athiest and i came here to learn about christianity, after discovering that other religeons(except maybe buddhism) are not for me. How does that help? Well i find you guys rather non-biased, but i suspect you probably argue through some religeous matters(WITH NUTTERS)

My grandparents are kind of a big encouragement, they are good Christians I suppose. Full of wisdom, so i kind of feel compelled to atleast give it a go.

but i suspect you probably argue through some religeous matters(WITH NUTTERS)

ummm...not sure what this means....