Re: More Trinity stuff
Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:58 pm
A person cannot declare that God is a singular one because to do so as you claim also makes God have only one attribute and no other on the grounds of the very rules of grammar you laid out! Yet the bible declares God is not a lump but has heart, soul, and mind - a Echad - a real Elohim!
You cannot have it both ways. Either God is a singular one or a unity that makes one-One. The way the anti-Trinity crowd portrays the oneness of God as only a singular one means that God can only be one of his attributes and possesses none else because God is one — singular number one. Your grammar will not allow for anything else.
Also reducing God to a singular One sets you up as the only purveyor of truth and the only ones who correctly knows what God is really like as you have reduced him to a simple state of being so easily understood and so easy to comprehend. However, this is violation of scripture as it is written:
Job 5:8-9, "As for me, I would seek God, and to God would I commit my cause, 9 who does great things and unsearchable, marvelous things without number.” ESV
Psalms 145:3, “Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised, and his greatness is unsearchable.” ESV
Job 11:7-8, “Are you able to take God's measure, to make discovery of the limits of the Ruler of all? 8 They are higher than heaven; what is there for you to do? - Deeper than the underworld, and outside your knowledge...” BBE
Romans 11:33, “O how deep is the wealth of the wisdom and knowledge of God! No one is able to make discovery of his decisions, and his ways may not be searched out.” BBE
Your doctrine, by flippant condescension, contains no mystery of God at all. The Lord is reduce to contorted twisting of proof text to reduce him to fit your hubris as you have fully searched him out and become God's counselor and personal instructor. You boldly poke fun of the Trinitarian doctrine by mocking us when we say that the Lord is mysterious, his ways are past finding out, His essence mysterious. We embrace the mystery of God and are thus at least scriptural in our stance. We declare nothing is impossible for God! Your doctrine does not - How — re-read your own comments.
Your doctrine declares that God is a one and falsely claims that the Trinity of God means that God divided himself and other such nonsense. For example, some of your crowd even argues - saying 'that since human beings cannot split their oneness, neither can God' and this is said with such mocking pomposity and smugness. Proving your hubris is showing — such contempt for the mystery of God! The very mystery that the scriptures proclaim exist!!!
The doctrine of the Trinity does not teach that God divided himself in any manner. On the contrary, it simply accepts what God says about himself as true that nothing is too difficult for him! We who believe in the Trinity do not under any pretense make ourselves out as God's counselors as you do. God does not need to confer with us before he does anything to make sure he is scriptural as your doctrine does.
God stretched forth his arm that saves, not detached it. Jesus commented often that the Father and Holy Spirit were in him in unity not division. You do not know the real Messiah as the Messiah — God manifest in human form — a servant — a man united with God and God with man. Also, Your doctrine as well as yourself cannot comprehend God's essences as he is — a unity of one and that Jesus came forth from that one and was with God for he is God and existed eternally as he is God as described as the arm/hand of the Lord. You see Jesus beginning in a manger, we see the servant of God beginning in Mary — a great mystery indeed! But why waste time casting pearls before swine?
Isa 40:5-13, “And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together, for the mouth of the LORD has spoken." 6 A voice says, "Cry!" And I said, "What shall I cry?" All flesh is grass, and all its beauty is like the flower of the field. 7 The grass withers, the flower fades when the breath of the LORD blows on it; surely the people are grass. 8 The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever. 9 Get you up to a high mountain, O Zion, herald of good news; lift up your voice with strength, O Jerusalem, herald of good news; lift it up, fear not; say to the cities of Judah, "Behold your God!" 10 Behold, the Lord GOD comes with might and his arm rules for him; behold, his reward is with him, and his recompense before him. 11 He will tend his flock like a shepherd; he will gather the lambs in his arms; he will carry them in his bosom, and gently lead those that are with young. 12 Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand and marked off the heavens with a span, enclosed the dust of the earth in a measure and weighed the mountains in scales and the hills in a balance? 13 Who has measured the Spirit of the LORD, or what man shows him his counsel?” ESV
Isaiah 53:1, “Who has believed what he has heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?” ESV
Isaiah 63:12, “who caused his glorious arm to go at the right hand of Moses, who divided the waters before them to make for himself an everlasting name…” ESV
Jeremiah 32:17: “Ah, Lord GOD! It is you who have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and by your outstretched arm! Nothing is too hard for you.” ESV
Isaiah 59:16, “He saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no one to intercede; then his own arm brought him salvation, and his righteousness upheld him.” ESV
God has his essence, nature, attributes which combine to make God one. God has a heart, a soul, a mind, He is Spirit — this the bible plainly writes and makes known. These make three yet are still one. “Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory,” 1 Timothy 3:16 —ESV
We make no excuses and attempt to explain away this mystery as you do by cheapening the word of God by declaring the bible does not mean what is written because of this and that reason. We instead embrace the mystery — you do not. We stand on scripture — you do not. Our doctrine leads to the one God who saves — yours lead to another Jesus, not the one the bible proclaims. But why waste time casting pearls before swine?
As we have A Heart, A Soul, A Mind that makes up our human essence as one, then what image and likeness is this? Did not God make humanity in his image and likeness? Yes, God has — A Heart, A Soul, A Mind — his essence: Blessed trinity. We accept him as he his and wish him not to conform to our ideation but rather that we are instead transformed into his ideal — united to Love God with all our heart, soul, and mind, redeemed by his blood, bought, filled by his Spirit so we can learn to love God and thus be transformed.
I'll end with a mystery:
God's is one, yet three which make one, and if you cannot understand this, then try one essence in three Parts. But be forewarned, parts do not have personality. Each three Heart, Soul, Mind make one. Each has their own personality defined by function and each has their own multitude of individual attributes but are one essence. God is Spirit.
No one has seen God as he is in his essence. He reveals himself as he so wills and sent forth his son to reveal himself to all — a savior uniting man and God again. Great is this mystery.
Now with a warning:
Why do you both [Fortigrun. Pierac]continue to try to cheapen the mystery of Godliness? Only Hubris would explain this. I fear for your souls as you will be held to account for leading multitudes astray. Laugh all you want - God plays for keeps - this is not a game.
But why should you fear this Fortigrun? You do not believe in eternal perdition — only nothingness. Your doctrine has no fear of God — nothingness is nothing to fear. The Jesus you trust cannot save as he is not God who can!
Acts 4:11-12, “This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." ESV
Isaiah 45:21-24, “Give the word, put forward your cause, let us have a discussion together: who has given news of this in the past? Who made it clear in early times? Did not I, the Lord? And there is no God but me; a true God and a savior; there is no other. 22 Let your hearts be turned to me, so that you may have salvation, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is no other. 23 By myself have I taken an oath, a true word has gone from my mouth, and will not be changed, that to me every knee will be bent, and every tongue will give honor.” BBE
Fortigrun and Pierac, you both show great contempt for God's word in your attempts to explain away clear meanings of text.
Pierac — Only God can save — who than is Jesus?
You cannot keep twisting scriptures that do not agree with your pride. The bible speaks on its on. When it says - ? And there is no God but me; a true God and a savior; there is no other. 22 Let your hearts be turned to me, so that you may have salvation, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is no other - it leaves no doubt who Jesus is no matter what you otherwise claim.
James 5:19-20, “My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, 20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.” ESV
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You cannot have it both ways. Either God is a singular one or a unity that makes one-One. The way the anti-Trinity crowd portrays the oneness of God as only a singular one means that God can only be one of his attributes and possesses none else because God is one — singular number one. Your grammar will not allow for anything else.
Also reducing God to a singular One sets you up as the only purveyor of truth and the only ones who correctly knows what God is really like as you have reduced him to a simple state of being so easily understood and so easy to comprehend. However, this is violation of scripture as it is written:
Job 5:8-9, "As for me, I would seek God, and to God would I commit my cause, 9 who does great things and unsearchable, marvelous things without number.” ESV
Psalms 145:3, “Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised, and his greatness is unsearchable.” ESV
Job 11:7-8, “Are you able to take God's measure, to make discovery of the limits of the Ruler of all? 8 They are higher than heaven; what is there for you to do? - Deeper than the underworld, and outside your knowledge...” BBE
Romans 11:33, “O how deep is the wealth of the wisdom and knowledge of God! No one is able to make discovery of his decisions, and his ways may not be searched out.” BBE
Your doctrine, by flippant condescension, contains no mystery of God at all. The Lord is reduce to contorted twisting of proof text to reduce him to fit your hubris as you have fully searched him out and become God's counselor and personal instructor. You boldly poke fun of the Trinitarian doctrine by mocking us when we say that the Lord is mysterious, his ways are past finding out, His essence mysterious. We embrace the mystery of God and are thus at least scriptural in our stance. We declare nothing is impossible for God! Your doctrine does not - How — re-read your own comments.
Your doctrine declares that God is a one and falsely claims that the Trinity of God means that God divided himself and other such nonsense. For example, some of your crowd even argues - saying 'that since human beings cannot split their oneness, neither can God' and this is said with such mocking pomposity and smugness. Proving your hubris is showing — such contempt for the mystery of God! The very mystery that the scriptures proclaim exist!!!
The doctrine of the Trinity does not teach that God divided himself in any manner. On the contrary, it simply accepts what God says about himself as true that nothing is too difficult for him! We who believe in the Trinity do not under any pretense make ourselves out as God's counselors as you do. God does not need to confer with us before he does anything to make sure he is scriptural as your doctrine does.
God stretched forth his arm that saves, not detached it. Jesus commented often that the Father and Holy Spirit were in him in unity not division. You do not know the real Messiah as the Messiah — God manifest in human form — a servant — a man united with God and God with man. Also, Your doctrine as well as yourself cannot comprehend God's essences as he is — a unity of one and that Jesus came forth from that one and was with God for he is God and existed eternally as he is God as described as the arm/hand of the Lord. You see Jesus beginning in a manger, we see the servant of God beginning in Mary — a great mystery indeed! But why waste time casting pearls before swine?
Isa 40:5-13, “And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together, for the mouth of the LORD has spoken." 6 A voice says, "Cry!" And I said, "What shall I cry?" All flesh is grass, and all its beauty is like the flower of the field. 7 The grass withers, the flower fades when the breath of the LORD blows on it; surely the people are grass. 8 The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever. 9 Get you up to a high mountain, O Zion, herald of good news; lift up your voice with strength, O Jerusalem, herald of good news; lift it up, fear not; say to the cities of Judah, "Behold your God!" 10 Behold, the Lord GOD comes with might and his arm rules for him; behold, his reward is with him, and his recompense before him. 11 He will tend his flock like a shepherd; he will gather the lambs in his arms; he will carry them in his bosom, and gently lead those that are with young. 12 Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand and marked off the heavens with a span, enclosed the dust of the earth in a measure and weighed the mountains in scales and the hills in a balance? 13 Who has measured the Spirit of the LORD, or what man shows him his counsel?” ESV
Isaiah 53:1, “Who has believed what he has heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?” ESV
Isaiah 63:12, “who caused his glorious arm to go at the right hand of Moses, who divided the waters before them to make for himself an everlasting name…” ESV
Jeremiah 32:17: “Ah, Lord GOD! It is you who have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and by your outstretched arm! Nothing is too hard for you.” ESV
Isaiah 59:16, “He saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no one to intercede; then his own arm brought him salvation, and his righteousness upheld him.” ESV
God has his essence, nature, attributes which combine to make God one. God has a heart, a soul, a mind, He is Spirit — this the bible plainly writes and makes known. These make three yet are still one. “Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory,” 1 Timothy 3:16 —ESV
We make no excuses and attempt to explain away this mystery as you do by cheapening the word of God by declaring the bible does not mean what is written because of this and that reason. We instead embrace the mystery — you do not. We stand on scripture — you do not. Our doctrine leads to the one God who saves — yours lead to another Jesus, not the one the bible proclaims. But why waste time casting pearls before swine?
As we have A Heart, A Soul, A Mind that makes up our human essence as one, then what image and likeness is this? Did not God make humanity in his image and likeness? Yes, God has — A Heart, A Soul, A Mind — his essence: Blessed trinity. We accept him as he his and wish him not to conform to our ideation but rather that we are instead transformed into his ideal — united to Love God with all our heart, soul, and mind, redeemed by his blood, bought, filled by his Spirit so we can learn to love God and thus be transformed.
I'll end with a mystery:
God's is one, yet three which make one, and if you cannot understand this, then try one essence in three Parts. But be forewarned, parts do not have personality. Each three Heart, Soul, Mind make one. Each has their own personality defined by function and each has their own multitude of individual attributes but are one essence. God is Spirit.
No one has seen God as he is in his essence. He reveals himself as he so wills and sent forth his son to reveal himself to all — a savior uniting man and God again. Great is this mystery.
Now with a warning:
Why do you both [Fortigrun. Pierac]continue to try to cheapen the mystery of Godliness? Only Hubris would explain this. I fear for your souls as you will be held to account for leading multitudes astray. Laugh all you want - God plays for keeps - this is not a game.
But why should you fear this Fortigrun? You do not believe in eternal perdition — only nothingness. Your doctrine has no fear of God — nothingness is nothing to fear. The Jesus you trust cannot save as he is not God who can!
Acts 4:11-12, “This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." ESV
Isaiah 45:21-24, “Give the word, put forward your cause, let us have a discussion together: who has given news of this in the past? Who made it clear in early times? Did not I, the Lord? And there is no God but me; a true God and a savior; there is no other. 22 Let your hearts be turned to me, so that you may have salvation, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is no other. 23 By myself have I taken an oath, a true word has gone from my mouth, and will not be changed, that to me every knee will be bent, and every tongue will give honor.” BBE
Fortigrun and Pierac, you both show great contempt for God's word in your attempts to explain away clear meanings of text.
Pierac — Only God can save — who than is Jesus?
You cannot keep twisting scriptures that do not agree with your pride. The bible speaks on its on. When it says - ? And there is no God but me; a true God and a savior; there is no other. 22 Let your hearts be turned to me, so that you may have salvation, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is no other - it leaves no doubt who Jesus is no matter what you otherwise claim.
James 5:19-20, “My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, 20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.” ESV
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