jlay wrote:We are saved by grace not by works, but without works then there is no faith and without faith then there is no grace. So by refusing to even try to keep God's Holy Laws you make null and void faith and thereby you make null and void grace.
"Faith without works is dead." That is scripture. Where does it say without works there is no faith? This verse indicates that faith is there. Yet, it is not manifesting itself in the life of one who has faith.
How many times have you failed to act in love since being a Christian? If you are like me, probably a lot. When I fail to repsond in love, my faith is dead. When I respond in love, my faith is alive. Why do you feel compelled to apply this verse to the Sabbath? With what measure do you judge? Remember it will be also measured unto you.
So by refusing to even try to keep God's Holy Laws you make null and void faith and thereby you make null and void grace.
Legalism. You are saying that our actions, are able to undo what Christ did. Jesus and Paul both confimred that law is fulfilled in this, "Love the lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, mind and strength. And love thy neighbor as thyself." I assume then, since you are qualified to judge Sabbath keeping, that you are always acting in faith in all you think, say, and do?
Fitz. I asked you a simple question.
"please provide NT SCRIPTURE on how a new covenant gentile believer is to "keep" the Sabbath."
Here we go with the twisting of scripture another thing christians are very good at.
I ask you if your are dead and you then still present? Do you still exist? Of course not and if faith is dead it no longer exist either. Now why would you need to twist scripture? Is it because that is the only way you can make it appear that what you believe is true, because if you do not twist scripture then what you believe can be proven to be a lie?
Now as to your other question. Why do you not read what I posted and not what you want others to think I posted.
I said that we are to strive to obey God/Jesus' Holy Laws and I also said that we will fail in doing so, but that is why Jesus kept them for us perfectly so that when we fail we have forgiveness through Him that did keep them.
Now I wish to ask you some questions, well you answer them?
First If, as you claim, that God/Jesus' Holy Laws were done away with then why do you use them to convict others of sin?
Two. Since, as you say, Jesus suffered and died on the cross so as to remove His Holy Laws, that you claim, were contrary to us then why do you make null and void what He did by using them to convict others of sin?
Three. If, as you claim, that His Holy Laws were done away with by being nailed to His cross then does it not stand to reason that all men since that time are without sin as the Apostle says? 1John 3:4, 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now if sin is the transgression of the Law then
Romans 4:15, 15 for where no law is, there is no transgression. Romans 5:23, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Now as do all christians try to claim that even though there is no law there is still sin. I ask you how can that be when even God Himself says that where there is not law/commandments there is no sin? How you higher than God/Jesus so as to have the power to over rule Him. By what scripture do you claim that there is sin without the law? By what scripture do you claim that all the laws save one are to be inforced? You make bold claims but without substance.
BY WHAT LAWS DO YOU ACCUSE OTHERS OF SIN?
Matthew 12:11-13, 11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
13 Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.
Mark 2:23-26, 23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?
26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the showbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?
Mark 3:1-5, 1 And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand.
2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.
3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.
4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.
Mark 6:2, 2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
Luke 4:15, 16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day and stood up for to read.
Luke 4:31, 31 And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days
Luke 6:6, 6 And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.
I can post many more scripture where Jesus shows us by example what we can and cannot do on the Sabbath, but I feel that these are enough.
First we can help others on the sabbath as long as we are not causing them to violate the sabbath by doing so. We can feed ourselves on the sabbath. We can go to the temple/church on the sabbath to worship.
Now I imagine that your next question or statement most likely is going to be, "Well I do all these things on sunday so I am keeping the sabbath." I say to you that you are not keeping the sabbath if you do not acknowlege that God's Holy Sabbath is the seventhday and not the firstday. Shall I post scripture that shows us that God/Jesus is more concerned with what we believe and do spiritually than what we do physically, because what we do spiritually is what we most likely will do physically and we are commanded by Him to keep His Holy Commandments. Not what does His Holy Commandments say concerning the sabbath? I am not speaking of what the law of Moses says I am speaking of God/Jesus' Holy Commandments. Here are His Holy Commandments.
Exodus 20:1-17, 1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Now I ask you, Why do you use the OT Laws to convict others of sin? Why do men pass laws that come from OT laws and then force men to obey them? With scritpture please show me where God/Jesus tells us which of His commandments we are to keep and which ones we are not. Show me how any of God/Jesus' Holy Laws are contrary to us.
Now I can show you how the laws of Moses were contrary to us and how the Levitical laws were contrary to us, but you are claiming that God/Jesus' Holy Commandments were also contrary to us and I would like for you to explain how they are. Again I also ask you if His Holy Commandments are contrary to us then why do you use them to convict others of sin.
You can not have it both ways as you make God/Jesus a God of confussion. Obey but do not obey, follow but do not follow. Either His Holy Laws have been done away or they have not and if they have been do away then why do men disobey Him by trying to inforce laws which He suffered for and died so as to remove them. Are we not told that they were nailed to His cross? So why do you feel you have the right to use them to convict of sin? I ask you since, as you claim, they have been done away that all men born since that time are without sin as we are told clearly that sin is the breaking of God/Jesus' Holy Laws. So it stands as the Apostle said that where there are no laws there can be no sin, but as for you, you are trying to claim that there is no law and yet even though there are no laws there is still sin. So I ask you how can there be sin without laws? You wish to claim that God/Jesus brought back all His Holy Laws except for the sabbathday law then show me scripture where He did that.
Now will you answer my questions?
FWIW, I take a day of rest. In fact my employer closes the business one day a week.
I would pray, that you would receive wisdom, and abandon such cultic, legalistic doctrines, that claim Christ's glory can be wiped out by people failing to keep the OT law.
