Wow, thank you for making my day... well, it's night here but still...plouiswork wrote:Wow. Thank you and thank you again Kurieuo, both from making this thread and from having the patience to draw out the beliefs of those with wildly different views from your own. I've been trying to understand why so many people choose to believe in a God despite the lack of evidence and now I can see I've been hoodwinked into believing that this even supported the position of atheism in the first place!
This was the turning point for me. What do we really believe? Anyone can claim to not believe anything unless it's substantiated by empirical evidence, but there's evidence all throughout this thread to the contrary. I don't think I spotted a single honest atheist in this thread.Kurieuo wrote:You don't strike me as the nihilistic type to be posting on boards such as this, and claiming some things I've said are wrong (straw men) and that I've made mistaken generalisations.
Nonetheless, one needs a solution to the predicament of uncertainty. Otherwise they'll go insane in circular reasoning not believing A or ~A on anything, effectively become dysfunctional and a rambling mess. What can be logically proven won't get you certainty, for you must even first prove the logic that you use. But, what is logically most practical based on what appears most obvious, intuitive or probable will help you to be certain about many things. It's a resolution I had to come to myself.
If you're not going to embrace and concept of reality because you can't be logically prove 100% anything to do with reality, then while Nihilism a position you can take... I'm sure as you live your life that you nonetheless embrace some things as true. If not, then our discussion must come to an end for there's nothing really to discuss. This discussion perhaps isn't even happening.
I still have more to learn before I know whether I am a Christian or not, but I am definitely a theist as of today. I apologize that I thus cannot answer to the challenge of this thread but I would be more than happy to try to clear things up if any atheists are confused about the points I've made here.
It's a pleasure I've not had to meet someone so intellectually honest and open.
Re: those who resist a belief in God, they may appear dishonest but there is something more I detect going on.
Hindwinked is a good way of defining such. When you can see, you can see it in their responses so clearly -- they seriously cannot see.
Consider Amazing Grace, "was blind but now I see."
Only, I've never come across someone like you whose blinders just fell off short of them coming to Christ.
Perhaps you were truly seeking with an open heart, and God opened your eyes so you could at least see the truth of his existence?
Fair enough, you're not Christian, but I dare say if your belief changed so instantly that you'll be able to follow the rest of the trail.
Thanks again for sharing!