Evidence for God from Science

Revolutionary wrote:Perhaps someone could demonstrate some integrity and answer the simple question without absurd declarations like "God can't create something perfect, because only he is perfect!!!"

So, were we created innately perfect or imperfect?

Click here.

Are you sure you want to mention integrity though? How about you start by giving some proof for all the gibberish you've been spewing around, something that has been requested from you repeatedly and ignored by you just as often.

Byblos wrote:

Revolutionary wrote:Perhaps someone could demonstrate some integrity and answer the simple question without absurd declarations like "God can't create something perfect, because only he is perfect!!!"

So, were we created innately perfect or imperfect?

Click here.

Are you sure you want to mention integrity though? How about you start by giving some proof for all the gibberish you've been spewing around, something that has been requested from you repeatedly and ignored by you just as often.

Perhaps you can explain what it is that you think I'm trying to prove?
That's not the position I have placed myself in, nor one that I adhere to.... Perhaps you are very confused!

AND?

Revolutionary wrote:

Byblos wrote:

Revolutionary wrote:Perhaps someone could demonstrate some integrity and answer the simple question without absurd declarations like "God can't create something perfect, because only he is perfect!!!"

So, were we created innately perfect or imperfect?

Click here.

Are you sure you want to mention integrity though? How about you start by giving some proof for all the gibberish you've been spewing around, something that has been requested from you repeatedly and ignored by you just as often.

Perhaps you can explain what it is that you think I'm trying to prove?
That's not the position I have placed myself in, nor one that I adhere to.... Perhaps you are very confused!

AND?

Man do you ever, EVER respond to anything at all? No wonder you think you've got it all figured out, you don't actually think anyone else exists, do you? Are you a solipsist?

Byblos wrote:

Revolutionary wrote:

Byblos wrote:

Revolutionary wrote:Perhaps someone could demonstrate some integrity and answer the simple question without absurd declarations like "God can't create something perfect, because only he is perfect!!!"

So, were we created innately perfect or imperfect?

Click here.

Are you sure you want to mention integrity though? How about you start by giving some proof for all the gibberish you've been spewing around, something that has been requested from you repeatedly and ignored by you just as often.

Perhaps you can explain what it is that you think I'm trying to prove?
That's not the position I have placed myself in, nor one that I adhere to.... Perhaps you are very confused!

AND?

Man do you ever, EVER respond to anything at all? No wonder you think you've got it all figured out, you don't actually think anyone else exists, do you? Are you a solipsist?

I'm not the one making declarations and claiming proof, you are!
Now you want me to prove a declaration that has never been made by me?

AND?

It's real simple, go back and try as you might to find where I've made a single declaration and claimed it was proof of something.... I'll be waiting!

Revolutionary wrote:

Byblos wrote:

Revolutionary wrote:

Byblos wrote:

Revolutionary wrote:Perhaps someone could demonstrate some integrity and answer the simple question without absurd declarations like "God can't create something perfect, because only he is perfect!!!"

So, were we created innately perfect or imperfect?

Click here.

Are you sure you want to mention integrity though? How about you start by giving some proof for all the gibberish you've been spewing around, something that has been requested from you repeatedly and ignored by you just as often.

Perhaps you can explain what it is that you think I'm trying to prove?
That's not the position I have placed myself in, nor one that I adhere to.... Perhaps you are very confused!

AND?

Man do you ever, EVER respond to anything at all? No wonder you think you've got it all figured out, you don't actually think anyone else exists, do you? Are you a solipsist?

I'm not the one making declarations and claiming proof, you are!
Now you want me to prove a declaration that has never been made by me?

AND?

It's real simple, go back and try as you might to find where I've made a single declaration and claimed it was proof of something.... I'll be waiting!

Great, now we've finally got something to go with. You have nothing to say and nothing to prove. Why exactly are you still posting?

No, I have plenty to say and own my own voice in doing so.... What I have to say speaks for itself without having the ego to prove anything beyond what it has to offer!

You're the one throwing declarations around! You get to own that!

I will make a declaration just to appease you....

One thing I find rather brilliant, OK, so even then it's a personal declaration.... I can't help it!

When you own your own voice and focus upon what it has to offer.... There is no argument!
You either prove your own expression in how it advances your mind or another's, and/or you open up opportunity for another to offer it a different perspective towards it's growth.
When we take responsibility for our voice, it's a perfecting model that advances our expression.


All the arguments on this entire forum have come from declarations surrounding belief!
This is an intelligent way of existing right? Arguing who's right and who's wrong... Convincing people to believe they are sinful.... Arguing within the belief itself of who has the 'correct' interpretation....

Imagine where we could travel if we focused upon proving our own expression to give and love.....
Does your brilliant God have such a big ego that he really wants us to argue over him and indulge in this much discord?..... God sounds like a petty little spoiled brat, more than a brilliant and loving being!

Revolutionary wrote:No, I have plenty to say and own my own voice in doing so.... What I have to say speaks for itself without having the ego to prove anything beyond what it has to offer!

You're the one throwing declarations around! You get to own that!

And I have. I have both philosophy and science on my side. You assert an endless void when science itself hasn't settled the issue yet, you assert infinite matter without any proof whatsoever based on an erroneous application of the law of conservation of mass, you assert a 'closed' infinite model, and so on and so on. That's a whole lotta assertin' Lucy, and yet you claim you have nothing to prove. Like I said, quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur. You've derailed this thread much too much and wasted everyone's precious time. But then again why not, you think time is timeless

Revolutionary wrote:Does your brilliant God have such a big ego that he really wants us to argue over him and indulge in this much discord?..... God sounds like a petty little spoiled brat, more than a brilliant and loving being!

Mods? Haven't we had enough yet?

Revolutionary wrote:
Convincing people to believe they are sinful

Showing people they are sinners, shows them that they need a redeemer.

Revolutionary wrote:
Imagine where we could travel if we focused upon proving our own expression to give and love.....

If that "love" is without God, then you know where that road leads...with good intentions.

Revolutionary, I find it ironic that you're trying to preach some kind of harmony and peace, when your name is a synonym for radical and subversive. Isn't it ironic, dontcha think?

Byblos wrote:

Revolutionary wrote:No, I have plenty to say and own my own voice in doing so.... What I have to say speaks for itself without having the ego to prove anything beyond what it has to offer!

You're the one throwing declarations around! You get to own that!

And I have. I have both philosophy and science on my side. You assert an endless void when science itself hasn't settled the issue yet, you assert infinite matter without any proof whatsoever based on an erroneous application of the law of conservation of mass, you assert a 'closed' infinite model, and so on and so on. That's a whole lotta assertin' Lucy, and yet you claim you have nothing to prove. Like I said, quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur. You've derailed this thread much too much and wasted everyone's precious time. But then again why not, you think time is timeless

No, I asserted logic for the cause of advancing a discussion.....
You can place anything you desire beyond our universe..... Place God beyond our observable universe.... Is God infinite? If so, how is that defined?
Is it by void or some sort of mass?
If God isn't infinite, where does God begin and where does God end? What exists beyond those points?

Can't we just speculate that infinite mass is a lot more impressive as a reflection than infinite void, even where God is a concept?
We're not proving anything, we're just using our melon for a moment.

The problem is when we indulge beyond the bare acceptance of belief that God exists and created this arena, to actually contemplate infinite mass.... What you fail to understand where conservation of mass is concerned is that mass can radiate away from, and be 'lost' concerning the seemingly 'contemplatively' finite boundaries of a system.... This theory doesn't declare that mass disappears.... poof! The impact point when examining an infinite multiverse of infinite mass and universes is that this seemingly 'lost' radiant energy (mass) is radiating out of every universe and never disappears but is concentrated in massive gravitational fields where it begins to seamlessly shift density.
We don't have to prove this, for the very obvious reason that it is impossible.... Infinity doesn't have an algorithm, it is something that we can't equate.
You have claimed that science proves God simply because you can't have mass without having something to create it.... To show an arena where mass is infinite having always existed, where every finite point of said mass is a gravitational process of it's own properties in an infinite expanse that keeps it uniform and static to a greater degree; it simply disproves your declaration that it requires a creator. Regardless of what you choose to believe, your declaration is not backed by any scientific proof.
Incomprehension of a possible arena of infinite mass is not an excuse for declaring proof, nor is "if it exists it must have a creator".
I am not taking a position to prove an infinite arena of mass (regardless if it makes more sense, God or not), but you CAN NOT declare that our observable universe is proof of God..... End of story!

BTW, your circular arguments where you demonstrate you can't grasp the most basic objective logic and apply it to a discussion, is what has derailed this thread.... I could answer your latest claim with the same thing I've repeated for the past 4 pages to you! But of course, all you have is projections and accusations; wonder where those came from?

1. Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence;
2. The universe has a beginning of its existence;
Therefore:
3. The universe has a cause of its existence.

RickD wrote:1. Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence;
2. The universe has a beginning of its existence;
Therefore:
3. The universe has a cause of its existence.

And we agree here..... Is there a point?

My point is that the cause is God. What do you say the cause is?

Let me entertain something quickly, it might help the discussion.....

I look at infinite mass where the properties itself create a continuum of 'undulating' and shifting bangs giving rise to new universes in an unfathomable expanse of time for each occurrence... And I am left dumbfounded and in awe.... And I think to myself, if I were God and sought to create a perfect arena that served as a reflection of my hand.... This is pure genius, it is in fact a brilliance that is beyond comprehension.

But here we are, arguing that our physical universe proves a creator.... I'm sorry, I'm not here to be a party pooper..... Objectively, it does not....

Secretly, where pure intellect is concerned..... I find that rather beautiful and brilliant!!!