Evidence for God from Science

B. W. wrote:

Kenny wrote:

If you believe that after you die nothing happens then what is the purpose of life? From that point of view life has no significance because there are no lasting effects. Sure you could fill your life with pleasurable moments but if you don't remember those after you die, or rather after you die it's as if you never even had those moments because you cease to exist then what is the point?

The fact that I will not be around a billion years from now doesn't mean what I do today doesn't matter; it matters TODAY. The more plentiful something is, the less valuable it becomes. If Gold were as common as lead, it would be worthless. The fact that life is as limited as it is makes it that much more precious while you have it. Living forever makes each precious moment of life practally worthless. I value my life more because it is limited.

Ken

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him." John 3:16-17

Do you really value your life?
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Yes. Do you really value your current life?

Ken

Kenny wrote:

B. W. wrote:

Kenny wrote:

If you believe that after you die nothing happens then what is the purpose of life? From that point of view life has no significance because there are no lasting effects. Sure you could fill your life with pleasurable moments but if you don't remember those after you die, or rather after you die it's as if you never even had those moments because you cease to exist then what is the point?

The fact that I will not be around a billion years from now doesn't mean what I do today doesn't matter; it matters TODAY. The more plentiful something is, the less valuable it becomes. If Gold were as common as lead, it would be worthless. The fact that life is as limited as it is makes it that much more precious while you have it. Living forever makes each precious moment of life practally worthless. I value my life more because it is limited.

Ken

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him." John 3:16-17

Do you really value your life?
-
-
-

Yes. Do you really value your current life?

Ken

But ultimately Kenny , under atheism what does your life mean if your just a piece of meat that came together through chemical interaction and blind chance.

bippy123 wrote:

Kenny wrote:

B. W. wrote:

Kenny wrote:

If you believe that after you die nothing happens then what is the purpose of life? From that point of view life has no significance because there are no lasting effects. Sure you could fill your life with pleasurable moments but if you don't remember those after you die, or rather after you die it's as if you never even had those moments because you cease to exist then what is the point?

The fact that I will not be around a billion years from now doesn't mean what I do today doesn't matter; it matters TODAY. The more plentiful something is, the less valuable it becomes. If Gold were as common as lead, it would be worthless. The fact that life is as limited as it is makes it that much more precious while you have it. Living forever makes each precious moment of life practally worthless. I value my life more because it is limited.

Ken

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him." John 3:16-17

Do you really value your life?
-
-
-

Yes. Do you really value your current life?

Ken

But ultimately Kenny , under atheism what does your life mean if your just a piece of meat that came together through chemical interaction and blind chance.

Atheism doesn't define me the way Christianity defines you. I'm no more a piece of meat than a car is a pile of steel glass rubber and vinyl

God never spoke to you? You never felt the Holy Spirit convicting you,speaking to your heart,drawing you to Christ?

No.

K[/quote]

Did you ever go to a church and hear preaching about Jesus?Have you ever been at a church where the pastor gives an altar call to receive Jesus and be saved? These might sound like dumb questions but there is a reason I'm asking.

yes

K[/quote]

The reason I asked is a person must be drawn by the Holy Spirit to be saved and you claim it has never happened and this is why,nobody can be saved unless the Holy Spirit draws a person to Jesus.Jesus said.If I be lifted up? I will draw all men unto me. So if it has not happened this is why. I think you need to find a good church that preaches salvation by Jesus and go,or seek out preachers who preach salvation by Jesus because the Holy Spirit must draw a person,one way or another before they can be saved,this is why we cannot get saved when we want to,like on our death bed,the Holy Spirit must draw a person before they can be saved and one way this happens is when the gospel of Jesus is preached.

I hate to say it but if the Holy Spirit has drawn you before and you said no,one too many times? The Holy Spirit will not always strive with a man and only God knows how many times it has happened,so it is possible that you might not can be saved,only God knows,not saying you can't be saved but the Holy Spirit will only draw and convict a person so many times before it gets weaker and weaker.

Ken[/quote]
But ultimately Kenny , under atheism what does your life mean if your just a piece of meat that came together through chemical interaction and blind chance.[/quote]
Atheism doesn't define me the way Christianity defines you. I'm no more a piece of meat than a car is a pile of steel glass rubber and vinyl[/quote]

Kenny are u sure you want to go with that analogy . You can take that back if you want
A car is intelligently designed
But once a car breaks down it is thrown into a junkyard.
But a car isn't conscious , it doesn't have a soul , and it doesn't care if it is functioning or not functioning . It doesn't smile , it doesn't love .

bippy123 wrote:
Kenny are u sure you want to go with that analogy . You can take that back if you want
A car is intelligently designed
But once a car breaks down it is thrown into a junkyard.
But a car isn't conscious , it doesn't have a soul , and it doesn't care if it is functioning or not functioning . It doesn't smile , it doesn't love .

I think you are reading a little too far into what I said. A car is more than the materials it consists of; so am I. That is the only point I was trying to make.

K

Kenny wrote:

bippy123 wrote:
Kenny are u sure you want to go with that analogy . You can take that back if you want
A car is intelligently designed
But once a car breaks down it is thrown into a junkyard.
But a car isn't conscious , it doesn't have a soul , and it doesn't care if it is functioning or not functioning . It doesn't smile , it doesn't love .

I think you are reading a little too far into what I said. A car is more than the materials it consists of; so am I. That is the only point I was trying to make.

K

Ken,

If you're more than the materials you consist of, you are actually making an argument for a spiritual/non physical part of yourself. You do understand that, don't you?

RickD wrote:

Kenny wrote:

bippy123 wrote:
Kenny are u sure you want to go with that analogy . You can take that back if you want
A car is intelligently designed
But once a car breaks down it is thrown into a junkyard.
But a car isn't conscious , it doesn't have a soul , and it doesn't care if it is functioning or not functioning . It doesn't smile , it doesn't love .

I think you are reading a little too far into what I said. A car is more than the materials it consists of; so am I. That is the only point I was trying to make.

K

Ken,

If you're more than the materials you consist of, you are actually making an argument for a spiritual/non physical part of yourself. You do understand that, don't you?

I think my argument is more for the intelligent part of myself. Though intelligence is non-physical; it definitely isn't spiritual.

Ken

Kenny wrote:

RickD wrote:

Kenny wrote:

bippy123 wrote:
Kenny are u sure you want to go with that analogy . You can take that back if you want
A car is intelligently designed
But once a car breaks down it is thrown into a junkyard.
But a car isn't conscious , it doesn't have a soul , and it doesn't care if it is functioning or not functioning . It doesn't smile , it doesn't love .

I think you are reading a little too far into what I said. A car is more than the materials it consists of; so am I. That is the only point I was trying to make.

K

Ken,

If you're more than the materials you consist of, you are actually making an argument for a spiritual/non physical part of yourself. You do understand that, don't you?

I think my argument is more for the intelligent part of myself. Though intelligence is non-physical; it definitely isn't spiritual.

Ken

What good is such intelligence when after you die you cease to be?

Again, you are defending nothingness as the ultimate source of good; which by the way, poses a logical contradiction...

Kenny wrote:Atheism doesn't define me the way Christianity defines you. I'm no more a piece of meat than a car is a pile of steel glass rubber and vinyl

You mentioned that life is more valuable than gold on this planet. How can that be, when it ceases into the oblivion of nothingness after life dies? Do you see a conundrum here?

The only way for life to be more valuable than Gold if life was created by a creator. Random chance holds no value for gold, or life. Why, because poof it vanishes into nothingness. You cannot have a sense of value for life without a creator designing that sense into you or I in the first place. Therefore, you do hear God's voice deep within your own conscience revealing the value of life more valuable that gold. Yet, you deny this as well as cannot explain why even you have this sense within you to begin with.

What have you done with the gift of life, or as you might understand it - What have you done with the randomness of life?

You value life so much that you never lie, never betrayed anyone, never broke a heart,or caused another grief in any form, or put folks on trial in your mind, or ever pretended to be something you are not? Have you abandoned anyone, took advantage of another? Lied to get out of a jam? Got mad at another without cause? Held a grudge, or difficulty in forgiving? Vandalize? If you valued life so much as you say, Ken, then why did you do any of these as well as any other negative thing not mentioned?

You can only value life that ceases and dispels into nothingness to a degree but even you cannot live up to the more valuable than Gold model you place on life, can you? Even if any of really could, what good would it be since one day - poof you are gone and another arises and undo's all your good intentions. Ken, not one of us here are as good as we think we are.

You admitted that you are not perfect, therefore your own golden value on life is not perfect either. However, God's golden value on life is what matters. He designed us as eternal beings with beginnings in a mortal body, free to decide to return to him or reject him completely along with the eternal consequence for each. In that, he is just to all. We are the ones who mistreat each other and we blame God for our own acts of mistreatment and not stopping us. Yet, he sent the means to stop us and teach us a new way to live that indeed values life by returning to the source of life - read John 3:16-21 and find out more and how this begins.

Do you value your eternal life, Ken?
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B. W. wrote: What good is such intelligence when after you die you cease to be?

While alive it is very useful. After I'm dead.... even if it were useful, there would be nobody around to take advantage of it's usefulness; right?

B. W. wrote:Again, you are defending nothingness as the ultimate source of good; which by the way, poses a logical contradiction...

Nothingness as the ultimate source of good? Nothingness after death might be a reality, but I never said it was a source of good; where are you getting this stuff?

Kenny wrote:Atheism doesn't define me the way Christianity defines you. I'm no more a piece of meat than a car is a pile of steel glass rubber and vinyl

B. W. wrote:You mentioned that life is more valuable than gold on this planet.

I think you are confusing me with someone else. I never compared gold to life. BTW I do consider HUMAN life more valuable than gold, but there are plenty of other life forms I do not consider as valuable as Gold.

B. W. wrote:How can that be, when it ceases into the oblivion of nothingness after life dies? Do you see a conundrum here?

Life is valuable while you are alive. Make no mistake about it; I would love for to live forever (as you believe) but wishing something to be true doesn’t make it true. I see no evidence that supports your claim that we could live forever.


Ken

Kenny, this is a letter written by an atheist to other atheists concerning the atheistic worldview. Would you agree or disagree with the assessment and why?

Here is the letter;

“[To] all my Atheist friends.
Let us stop sugar coating it. I know, it’s hard to come out and be blunt with the friendly Theists who frequent sites like this. However in your efforts to “play nice” and “be civil” you actually do them a great disservice.
We are Atheists. We believe that the Universe is a great uncaused, random accident. All life in the Universe past and future are the results of random chance acting on itself. While we acknowledge concepts like morality, politeness, civility seem to exist, we know they do not. Our highly evolved brains imagine that these things have a cause or a use, and they have in the past, they’ve allowed life to continue on this planet for a short blip of time. But make no mistake: all our dreams, loves, opinions, and desires are figments of our primordial imagination. They are fleeting electrical signals that fire across our synapses for a moment in time. They served some purpose in the past. They got us here. That’s it. All human achievement and plans for the future are the result of some ancient, evolved brain and accompanying chemical reactions that once served a survival purpose. Ex: I’ll marry and nurture children because my genes demand reproduction, I’ll create because creativity served a survival advantage to my ancient ape ancestors, I’ll build cities and laws because this allowed my ape grandfather time and peace to reproduce and protect his genes. My only directive is to obey my genes. Eat, sleep, reproduce, die. That is our bible.
We deride the Theists for having created myths and holy books. We imagine ourselves superior. But we too imagine there are reasons to obey laws, be polite, protect the weak etc. Rubbish. We are nurturing a new religion, one where we imagine that such conventions have any basis in reality. Have they allowed life to exist? Absolutely. But who cares? Outside of my greedy little gene’s need to reproduce, there is nothing in my world that stops me from killing you and reproducing with your wife. Only the fear that I might be incarcerated and thus be deprived of the opportunity to do the same with the next guy’s wife stops me. Some of my Atheist friends have fooled themselves into acting like the general population. They live in suburban homes, drive Toyota Camrys, attend school plays. But underneath they know the truth. They are a bag of DNA whose only purpose is to make more of themselves. So be nice if you want. Be involved, have polite conversations, be a model citizen. Just be aware that while technically an Atheist, you are an inferior one. You’re just a little bit less evolved, that’s all. When you are ready to join me, let me know, I’ll be reproducing with your wife.
I know it’s not PC to speak so bluntly about the ramifications of our beliefs, but in our discussions with Theists we sometimes tip toe around what we really know to be factual. Maybe it’s time we Atheists were a little more truthful and let the chips fall where they may. At least that’s what my genes are telling me to say.”
- See more at: http://coldcasechristianity.com/2014/th ... uuDNb.dpuf

NS,

That's a great letter. I too thought it was written by a Christian in disguise(who but ignorant Christians thinks people evolved from an ape?) But after reading the link, it seems the writer named as John, was really an atheist.

I'd like to hear what Kenny says, but the letter seems spot on to me!

Good find NS!

I'm not buying it!

I don't believe an atheist actually wrote it - as it's too self effacing, doesn't even pretend to assert there can be useful morality within atheism. This letter's "viewpoint" honestly reveals, with atheism, questions of morality - even self-serving ones - need not even be entertained. As the over-arching supposed benefit of a Godless world is "freedom" - do whatever/whenever/however - as it so suits and serves oneself. Atheism is the ultimate - the absolute zenith of narcissism.

As sad as it is, it is refreshing to actually read an Atheist who understands their beliefs.
This doesn't disprove Atheism. Many of us (including sugar-coated Atheists) may not want to face up a harsh reality.

The moral argument would be a poor one to make against this Atheist who has swallows his bitter pill.
And it is a bitter pill to swallow that grinds against our most basic intuitions of right and wrong, real meaning in the world, etc.

This guy appears to be a sociopath. If there were ever an atheist candidate to be converted to Christianity, I hope it would be him. Perhaps not everybody can handle atheism.

I took the liberty to respond to his posts.

NobodySpecial wrote: “[To] all my Atheist friends.
Let us stop sugar coating it. I know, it’s hard to come out and be blunt with the friendly Theists who frequent sites like this. However in your efforts to “play nice” and “be civil” you actually do them a great disservice.
We are Atheists. We believe that the Universe is a great uncaused, random accident. All life in the Universe past and future are the results of random chance acting on itself.

I think it is just better to admit nobody knows. Just because theists claim to have an answer doesn't mean we have to have one.

NobodySpecial wrote:While we acknowledge concepts like morality, politeness, civility seem to exist, we know they do not. Our highly evolved brains imagine that these things have a cause or a use,

they do have a use; that’s why we base our laws on them

NobodySpecial wrote:and they have in the past, they’ve allowed life to continue on this planet for a short blip of time. But make no mistake: all our dreams, loves, opinions, and desires are figments of our primordial imagination. They are fleeting electrical signals that fire across our synapses for a moment in time.

Thoughts usually lead to actions. Once that happens, they become more than fleeting electrical signals that fire across our synapses for a moment in time.

NobodySpecial wrote:They served some purpose in the past. They got us here. That’s it.

They also serve a purpose in the present; and will get us to the future

NobodySpecial wrote:All human achievement and plans for the future are the result of some ancient, evolved brain and accompanying chemical reactions that once served a survival purpose. Ex: I’ll marry and nurture children because my genes demand reproduction,

Foolish. People do it out of love. Many relationships don’t even desire reproduction; yet they still love.

NobodySpecial wrote:I’ll create because creativity served a survival advantage to my ancient ape ancestors,

An advantage to your ape ancestors? Creators has done more for mankind in the last 100 years than all the previous years combined! Imagine what’s in store for the next 100 years!

NobodySpecial wrote:I’ll build cities and laws because this allowed my ape grandfather time and peace to reproduce and protect his genes. My only directive is to obey my genes. Eat, sleep, reproduce, die. That is our bible.

That’s the bible of a sociopath. Don’t assume all atheist are like you; we’re not; we're better than that! I also find it interesting when describing something to live our lives by, you chose to name it "bible" Are you sure you aren't a Christian in disguise?

NobodySpecial wrote:We deride the Theists for having created myths and holy books. We imagine ourselves superior. But we too imagine there are reasons to obey laws, be polite, protect the weak etc. Rubbish. We are nurturing a new religion, one where we imagine that such conventions have any basis in reality. Have they allowed life to exist? Absolutely. But who cares? Outside of my greedy little gene’s need to reproduce, there is nothing in my world that stops me from killing you and reproducing with your wife.

Typical sociopathic drivel

NobodySpecial wrote:Only the fear that I might be incarcerated and thus be deprived of the opportunity to do the same with the next guy’s wife stops me. Some of my Atheist friends have fooled themselves into acting like the general population. They live in suburban homes, drive Toyota Camrys, attend school plays. But underneath they know the truth. They are a bag of DNA whose only purpose is to make more of themselves. So be nice if you want. Be involved, have polite conversations, be a model citizen. Just be aware that while technically an Atheist, you are an inferior one. You’re just a little bit less evolved, that’s all. When you are ready to join me, let me know, I’ll be reproducing with your wife.
I know it’s not PC to speak so bluntly about the ramifications of our beliefs, but in our discussions with Theists we sometimes tip toe around what we really know to be factual. Maybe it’s time we Atheists were a little more truthful and let the chips fall where they may. At least that’s what my genes are telling me to say.”

Do everybody (especially atheists) a favor; convert to Christianity, or some type of religion that has structure, a belief that there is something out there bigger than you are, who is looking over your shoulder keeping score; because of your disorder, you need it. I would prefer you be an ex-atheist who goes around preaching the evils of Atheism; believing all atheists are as sick as you are, than to continue living as you do; an obvious danger to society.

Ken