Evidence for God from Science

Deborah wrote:

Since you are having such a problem with the constancy of your thinking, I would recommend that you stop researching all other literature/websites (which must only worsen the problem for you) and stick with reading only Christian literature instead. Or even more definitively, read only the Bible, or even only the New Testament, or only John's Gospel, until the symptoms of your OCD have abated a little. And please continue to see your Christian counselor and psychiatrist for their ongoing help in lessening the impact of your OCD. I do you wish you the best.

I totally agree Brain.
and actually to read only the book of John is valid idea, the information in this book is more detailed than other books, suggesting that this disiple knew Jesus best.
this is a very sound suggestion hun.
and ty Judah for suggesting it.

Read the book of John, nowhere in any of the four gospels does it say the name of the person in it, there is the book of John, but his name isn't in any of the book as well as the other 3 gospel accounts.

HelpMeGod wrote: Read the book of John, nowhere in any of the four gospels does it say the name of the person in it, there is the book of John, but his name isn't in any of the book as well as the other 3 gospel accounts.

HMG, I am going to say it, but kindly... so what?!

The Gospel according to John is an authentic text concerning the historical figure, Jesus of Nazareth, and is a true and valid account of His life and teachings. You will have all truly born again Christians agreeing with this claim whether you yourself believe it or not. It stands the test of textual criticism by experts who know far more about these things than the rest of us ordinary folks.

I suspect you will probably hassle yourself over that assertion as well, but you are going to need to stop at some point and shelve those doubts, even experimentally, in order to change anything. You can always come back to them later when your symptoms are not so intrusive.

Despite having problems caused by OCD, you can still make decisions. For instance, you can still decide to eat when you are hungry, go to the bathroom when nature calls, go from one room of your house to another, and so forth. Therefore you can also do yourself a service by choosing to stay away from other literature that only exacerbates your difficulties, and enlisting whatever help you need (from others around you) in order to do so.

Now this is important: While your OCD is causing this much impairment, the appropriate source of help for it will be your psychiatrist and Christian counselor, and of course your prayers for God's peace and comfort as well.

The reason that I suggested confining yourself to John's Gospel was to reduce the overwhelming stimulation of non-Christian ideas, and provide some containment for your thinking.
I can read that gospel many times and still learn something new from doing so.
Or else pick some other gospel and study that instead.
But the idea was to provide structure and containment which will eventually help to settle you, but most importantly as well, in conjunction with good specialist medical intervention.

While you may be all over the place with your faith, remember that God is not. If you have told Him that you want to be a Christian, that you truly want to believe without doubt, then He will not let you go - He is faithful even when, due to your illness, you are not.

How do you know the truth, Brian? Be still and know it. Meditate.

For whether the universe is billions of years old to have evolved from; or a Saviour has to come to take you up to his spaceship, if you do not love, listen and respect yourself first, you will always seek outside yourself and take comfort in more and more knowlege.

I am confident therefore, the answer is within you. If your brain is constantly in chitter chatter and you cannot see the wood for the trees - meditate. Sit quietly and learn how to focus.

Your anxieties have taken you over so soon all you will have is medication, therapists and excuses.

As for reading books at this time of stress.... you know the answer.

HelpMeGod wrote:But the question is begged from me, HOW do I know the Bible is THE truth over everything else? How do I know? Because all I see is copycat here and there from pagan religions which existed WAY before Christianity. My Christianity is turning into insanity.

That is faith my friend... Focus on God and you will begin to see the light. You are like someone who runs full speed into a cave, and then says "gee, it sure is dark in here." Ignore your doubts; can't you see how they hurt you? Take a step of faith, and turn back to Jesus and the Bible.

The suggestion is right... Read and study the Bible, and pray to God. If you do that, things will come around for you.

Hi Brian,

About leaping into faith.... 'whatever you get into you will one day have to get out of'. You are well read so you know there are many people who will suggest you join them.

If you find your religion-of-one, that you are unique, you will be able to share everyone else's religion.

The meditation exercise described at http://www.fhu.com can be a start to break the cycle of intellect over the heart of the matter.

For the heart of the matter is what it is all about.

Put the books down for a while.

I've said before you can discuss and bring together your wider concerns with a more world travelled forum of christians at Two or More http://www.aimoo.com/forum/freeboard.cf ... Caches=Yes

Ugh! I feel that nothing is right and everything is going in circles for me. I just want to know the truth of everything, Is there a God, is He the Christian God, was there a Jesus, was He resurrected, is there a Holy Spirit? Sure I can read from the Bible, but how long until that religion is given up on just as all the other religions preceeding it, some religions lasting longer than Christianity? I watch http://www.faithunderfire.com regualary and there is the religious person and then the atheist person debating each other. Both have valid points. I feel at an extreme loss and I don't want to lose hope, I just want to be a good Christian who has a strong faith. We still don't have outside the Bible evidence for some of or most of the figures in the Bible. Such an example would be Moses, there is no outside evidence for him. I know we are supposed to take it up on faith, but I just don't know. Today and throughout history, there have been cases of miracles and such, but can that really be so and not the body producing any of it. I fear that science one day will find proof behind these so called miracles and they will no longer be proofs but just pure fiction and nonsense.

Ugh! I feel that nothing is right and everything is going in circles for me.

So just stop and sit still for awhile. Stop running around with the circles in the ratrace.

I just want to know the truth of everything, Is there a God, is He the Christian God, was there a Jesus, was He resurrected, is there a Holy Spirit?

So be patient. Only a big ego needs to know everything immediately. Learn to be patient and learn to be OK with not knowing. Gently wonder. No one is putting pressure on you to "know" anything. Calm down. Enjoy your life. Enjoy discovering. You're so young.

Sure I can read from the Bible, but how long until that religion is given up on just as all the other religions preceeding it, some religions lasting longer than Christianity? I watch http://www.faithunderfire.com regualary and there is the religious person and then the atheist person debating each other. Both have valid points. I feel at an extreme loss and I don't want to lose hope,

So don't lose hope ... you don't have to! Religions may die out, I don't know ... what is precious and of the Spirit of Life will remain eternally.

I just want to be a good Christian who has a strong faith.

Don't set a goal to "be" anything ... you are a child of the universe. Look around in awe and wonder.

We still don't have outside the Bible evidence for some of or most of the figures in the Bible. Such an example would be Moses, there is no outside evidence for him. I know we are supposed to take it up on faith, but I just don't know. Today and throughout history, there have been cases of miracles and such, but can that really be so and not the body producing any of it. I fear that science one day will find proof behind these so called miracles and they will no longer be proofs but just pure fiction and nonsense.

Brian ... the bible is full of wonderful things ... milk the Spirit out of it, not so much the "words" ... is there evidence, was there a Moses, is this true, etc etc etc ... who cares. The simple things are best. Just try loving your neighbor. Seek and you will find. Just be patient. Sometimes it takes years.

You know, sometimes we love confusion. We love to make it convoluted and mysterious. We keep going around and around and around and saying how confusing it all is. Sometimes this keeps us from simply taking a good, hard look at ourselves. It's a convenient way to avoid seeing something about ourselves that we would rather not see.

Well, I think I am going to check myself into a mental institution , this website - http://skepdic.com/ - plus other atheists websites has better logical evidence for their claims than Christianity does. I admit I have pushed the limit with research on both sides of the argument, but I really don't know what to believe anymore. What is the true religion, Islam or Christianity? Islam existed before Christianity. I DON'T FRICKEN' GET IT ANYMORE!!! I might as well just shoot myself. There is not a lot of evidence outside the Bible for many religious figures. I just might as well think that there is no afterlife, religion is dead, we are living by a lie, etc...

HelpMeGod wrote:Well, I think I am going to check myself into a mental institution , this website - http://skepdic.com/ - plus other atheists websites has better logical evidence for their claims than Christianity does.

Have you actually examined and compared the evidence?

HelpMeGod wrote:Islam existed before Christianity.

No. Christianity is from the first century A.D. Islam is from the seventh century A.D.

HelpMeGod wrote:There is not a lot of evidence outside the Bible for many religious figures.

There is a fair amount, although we cannot expect too much evidence for any given figure who lived that long ago.

HelpMeGod wrote:I just might as well think that there is no afterlife, religion is dead, we are living by a lie, etc...

I don't really see any basis for this claim.

I'm not trying to get the most attention out of these forums, I have SERIOUS problems. My dad told me that somehwere in the Bible or outside of it there were 2 brothers in the OT that split, one formed Judeo-Christianity and the other formed a different religion. I am confused as to which on we should live by and which is the true religion. Further, my parents said we might be following the wrong religion. History has been tainted SEVERELY by hundredes of previous pagan gods/sons and other current religions. One of the only reasons I am trying to stick to Christianity is because I don't want to die only to find that an afterlife actually exists and I am expelled to hell for all eternity. That would be a horrible thing. The Bible has good morals as well as other religions, and I am confused as to which is the true one. Let's say I am a Muslim, I would claim my religion is true and all others are false, well Christians believe that thier religion is true and all others are false. It goes with every religion. I have a screwed up brain if you havn't noticed by my postings. It started out early last year that I would devote my life further into God than I ever had done before, as I got into it, due to my nature, I started researching stuff on Christianity, and then I found articles that refutted those articles of Christianity both from inside the Bible and out. History has been plagued and I don't know what to believe anymore, I really don't. My parents tell me not to abandon religion, but take a break from it. But me being OCDE (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder ENHANCED), I have the need, the addiction to research my life away and I fell like it all goes in circles, I find a good Christian article and then there is a link that refutes it. The same process goes over and over again. I keep telling myself now that IF there is a God, I should ignore EVERYTHING and EVERY thought that goes in my mind and only anticapate the real proof from God. I don't trust myself anymore, my life used to be fine but has progressivly been getting worse because of my addictive researching and I don't know how to stop. I could get rid of my computer, but because of that addiction, like any other addiction, I would find any means possible to find an alternative way to research. http://skepdic.com/ provides the proof the visions are fake, the supernatural/paranormal is fake, everything that is Biblical is an elaborate hoax with good morals in it. I guess I have to accept the WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) alternative, because everyone in the skeptic field (atheists, agnostics, humanists, pagans, etc..) have stronger evidence for their claims than we do. I have lost hope, I want to get back on track, I just don't know how.

I see it as incompatible that one can be a Christian out of a fear of damnation. For Christ's gift is based upon love and not fear. I dare say that Christ won't give (or perhaps the better word is "force"?) His gift to anyone who feels they must accept it out of fear. And if this is correct, then I'm saddened by where this leaves you with your "Christianity."

As for what you say with regards to doubt and so forth; since you first began posting, I really wouldn't be suprised if you were an Atheist or similar pretending to be a worried Christian. Otherwise it just makes sense to me, and I'm sure many others here, why you write within your posts in the manner you do. Yet, this aside... here is something about myself that is perhaps at a polar opposite to you.

At times when I've felt worn down by life or whatever, I have wished I could dumb myself down and throw off my Christian beliefs to do with my life as I please. Yet then I can't rationally deny Christ's love, and I know I love Him even in these times everything just feels so surreal and emotionless. To deny God and Christ would be on par to denying my own existence. How do you turn away from something you know to be true? Things such as the kalam cosmological, existence of good, the obvious design rampant in the universe, and even right down to the specifics involving the historical evidence for Christ's life, death and resurrection, and my own personal experiences with God... I'm just so utterly logically convinced I wouldn't know where to start to begin overthrowing my beliefs. And the sites of skeptics you often visit only reveal how idiotic and irrational they can be, and if anything solidify my theistic beliefs even more. I don't have any idea how to go about denying His existence even if I sincerely desired to do so.

Kurieuo.

Kurieuo wrote:I see it as incompatible that one can be a Christian out of a fear of damnation. For Christ's gift is based upon love and not fear. I dare say that Christ won't give (or perhaps the better word is "force"?) His gift to anyone who feels they must accept it out of fear. And if this is correct, then I'm saddened by where this leaves you with your "Christianity."

As for what you say with regards to doubt and so forth; since you first began posting, I really wouldn't be suprised if you were an Atheist or similar pretending to be a worried Christian. Otherwise it just makes sense to me, and I'm sure many others here, why you write within your posts in the manner you do. Yet, this aside... here is something about myself that is perhaps at a polar opposite to you.

At times when I've felt worn down by life or whatever, I have wished I could dumb myself down and throw off my Christian beliefs to do with my life as I please. Yet then I can't rationally deny Christ's love, and I know I love Him even in these times everything just feels so surreal and emotionless. To deny God and Christ would be on par to denying my own existence. How do you turn away from something you know to be true? Things such as the kalam cosmological, existence of good, the obvious design rampant in the universe, and even right down to the specifics involving the historical evidence for Christ's life, death and resurrection, and my own personal experiences with God... I'm just so utterly logically convinced I wouldn't know where to start to begin overthrowing my beliefs. And the sites of skeptics you often visit only reveal how idiotic and irrational they can be, and if anything solidify my theistic beliefs even more. I don't have any idea how to go about denying His existence even if I sincerely desired to do so.

Kurieuo.

I fear, because I don't know what to believe, my psychiatrist has labled me "unique". I was not an atheist when I first joined this forum but I was sort of prior to joining. I got all hyped up last year when I wanted to rededicate my life to Christ and was into the reading of the Bible, but then out of nature and my OCDE, I wanted to know what is offered beyond the Bible. I got hooked, it became an addiction and my faith has spiraled downward. Also, I am not pretending, I am sincerely wanting to know truth/proof.

Living through OCD myself, I'd challenge whether it is applicable at all to how you try to apply it to yourself here. OCD has nothing to do with intellectuality, and everything to do with abnormal compulsive habits performed out of anxiousness. I don't deny you have OCD, but I don't think it can applied as the reason for your style of thinking and beliefs.

Kurieuo.

Kurieuo wrote:Living through OCD myself, I'd challenge whether it is applicable at all to how you try to apply it to yourself here. OCD has nothing to do with intellectuality, and everything to do with abnormal compulsive habits performed out of anxiousness. I don't deny you have OCD, but I don't think it can applied as the reason for your style of thinking and beliefs.

Kurieuo.

Trust me if you will Kurieuo, but I REALLY do have mental problems and I am here to find hard-core pure truth, just like anyone else. My OCD has been studied for over a year now and it has shown that it does impact my beliefs.

You want the hard truth Brian?

Selfish, hormone-driven, inexperienced, insecure, naive, helpless, gutless, and can't let go.

You want an answer to the accident of birth? Welcome to the club. So what are you going to do about it? Lie down?

Geez.

When you're forty and your parents tell you they didn't want children, you get to see what a compromise life has to be for everyone. If you can't compromise you go mad. In Jesus-speak: 'forgive'.

Are you a forgiving guy? Dropping the resentment or anger on what someone said or did to you?

Your parents for not being so bright or insightful as you? That little ego that knows it all..... and then gets upset when someone else more angry and frustrated than you writes about the world in a different way, so that you get lost on their ego-trip and more and more confused.

Well you ain't God and you can't fly. When you figure that out you can focus on what you can do to make life for you and others more fulfilling. A start would be to help somebody. Take a part-time job. See if you can do more than what they pay you without grumbling. Then look for a better job where they appreciate a hard worker. Chicken before the egg - Learn to serve first.

And then, and only then, you might recognize a real Jesus, someone whose intent is: it is better to give than receive.

Take small steps at a time. Courage is facing the unknown.

The winners in life have attitude.