Evidence for God from Science

Storyteller wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

Storyteller wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:"empty churches" ha, love it.

well, we got plenty of those now; not what you meant to invoke though, i guess

Having experienced some of the people who frequent churches, I don't know

ya
the fruit tells you all you need to know, huh. doesn't matter what people say they believe.

Storyteller wrote: Seriously though, I had to google Apostate, I'm not sure I'd call myself that though, I would have no problem following a religion if proved true, and so far, Christianity has been true for me. I don't know what "religion" that is, I just listen to God, read the bible, talk and pray to God and allow the Holy Spirit to guide me.
In an empty church, I feel close to God, I KNOW Him, feel Him, love Him.

Personally, I don't think God requires us to gather together in a physical place, not always. Maybe some of us are better suited elsewhere?

ha. well, wherever two or three are gathered in My Name gets used a lot for that, but i never been to a religious service with only two or three poeple...but i have gathered 2 or 3 deep, usually spontaneously, and found Christ there, usually in service to one of the three, helping out with some immediate need or whatever.

Also, the numbers 2 and 3 have a symbology in the Book; we are characterized as "two men in a bed," etc.
"2" made it all the way to the Promised Land, with a Third for a Witness, Moses, who is a type for Christ, etc.
So wherever the Book says "2," there is prolly a personal application of one sort, and wherever It says "3" one of another sort.

As to "religion," i think it is important to develop a valid definition of "religion;" mine has turned into "man's attempts to reach God," or iow the "works" that men do to try and reach God their way, all the while saying of course that works will not save you, but then you have to understand that they have quite a list of works, Laws really, that you must accomplish in order for you to be considered "saved" by them...that the sect across the street is, of course, doing "wrong," and so they are "not saved."

so i have found that "religion" is just actually the other side of the coin of "politics," the "coin" actually being the vehicle, and the prefect rep of that trinity, which describes all 3 legs; political, ecumenical, and financial.

"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion means."
Mahatma Gandhi

so, i would say that you have stumbled onto the system that the Book advises, that Paul pursued, in avoiding the other Apostles for 3 years, after his conversion...another sermon you will never hear in a "church." Be led by the Spirit, iow.
Seek the 3 baptisms; you already have one out of the way--you have been born of water. when you are accused of being drunk at the third hour of the day, i guess you have been born of the Spirit, then, maybe.

The fire one i'm not too sure about, but i know "hell, someday" turns into "trials and tribulations, today" when you look deep enough, and understand I AM, and Christ even tells us when we will be in trials, and how to go and find them, etc. so i guess those are clues for that.

"Blood" = "wine" in the Book, and there are 3 levels of wine, so to speak; grape juice (water), which, in the heat, turns to "new wine," (spirit), and can be distilled into "old wine," (fire).

And these can be associated with what and how one reads the Book; the same verse can be read multiple ways, and two people arguing about a verse online are usually both right, of course, from their individual perspectives, unless one is intentionally lying. "Milk" and "Meat" is a different, but similar analogy used.

We are indeed reading from the same book

Re, the three baptisms... yes, of water. Spirit, most definitely, I have the gift of faith (a recent revelation) and it is just so utterly perfect and apt (if ya wanna know why, troll through My Journey thread), fire? Again, oh, most definitely, yes.

The only thing that I am absolutely certain of about my faith is that Christ is my Saviour, my Lord. I am His, always.

Seriously, read some of My Journey I hear ya x

cool, got a link? ty

Link to Storyteller's My Journey

RickD wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:
and i am just a weirdo, ok?

And the entire forum creation said, "Amen"!!!!

FTFY

Jac3510 wrote:

RickD wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:
and i am just a weirdo, ok?

And the entire forum creation said, "Amen"!!!!

FTFY

bbyrd009 wrote:

Nicki wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was With God and the Word Was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made hat has been made. In Him was life, and that life was the light of men."

The Word of God is a collection of books that God inspired...

no, It is not, that is only what you have been led to believe and so that is what you see when you read now, but this cannot even be justified with the Book, or else you should have no problem with

In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God.

And this was accomplished so that you could then find Mansions in the Sky, and Rapture, rather than Nests, and Meeting Him in the Air, finding Word, which is nigh you, right now. Sorry. But there is not even any excuse for this now, a Lexicon is one click away. Go find Easter,

http://biblehub.com/kjv/acts/12.htm

there in verse 4, and then go to the Lex on that verse,

http://biblehub.com/lexicon/acts/12-4.htm

and see how you have been lied to, by people who signed Contracts for Jesus, so that you could pay them your money, ok?

that took me all of 2 minutes.

Where is the idea of Nests from? Jesus did say that his Father's house had many mansions (or rooms, in other versions)...

sure, and i don't think there is any problem with "mansions" per se, as long as they are understood to be allegorical. After all, i don't mean to suggest that God is weaving a bird's "nest" for us, either. So, the connection of mansion, dwelling place, nest, is made in other verses, i guess

Woe to him who builds his house by unjust gain, setting his nest on high to escape the clutches of ruin

psalm 104:12
{Beside them the birds of the heavens dwell; They lift up their voices among the branches.
The birds nest beside the streams and sing among the branches of the trees.}

Even the sparrow found a house for herself and the swallow a nest to lay her young at your altar, LORD of the Heavenly Armies, my king and God.

and the problem--if any--might be in when people start believing "in" what they are being told literally, "i'm getting a mansion in the sky," rather than what is meant, "a place to dwell, spiritually," not stopping to consider that mansions don't exist in the sky, and there is no "place" called heaven; which this last statement will also get quite a bit of resistance, despite the many direct refs to this truth.

so, to be clear, "Mansions" could also be a perfectly acceptable allusion, just as valid as "nests," i'm sure, maybe even moreso if one is using the analogy of "building a Temple, on the Foundation of Christ."

it is just maybe a good idea to get people who indicate that they believe they are going to a physical place, and getting an actual mansion--which is common in people who have accepted that "the Word" = "the Bible"--thinking along more spiritual lines.

Yes, we all know now that there are lots of interesting things out in space but physical heavenly mansions are not among them. I think of heaven as being in another dimension; quite real spiritually, like the angels which the Bible says could be all around us - but for now we don't normally have the capacity to detect such spiritual things. On the other hand Revelation says there will eventually be a new heaven and a new earth, where believers will have glorified (and resurrected, if necessary) bodies - whether that will all be physical or spiritual shouldn't matter.

If there is a PHYSICAL bodily resurrection, what might that suggest about our eternal home?

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonderful works in Your name?' But then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you. Depart from Me, you who practice evil'" (Matt. 7:21-23).

This passage clearly indicates that they who practice evil will not go to heaven even though they were once saved.

And what if a once Christian no longer believes that Jesus died for their sins, and instead turns to Islam or Buddhism?

Nicki wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:Even the sparrow found a house for herself and the swallow a nest to lay her young at your altar, LORD of the Heavenly Armies, my king and God.[/i]

and the problem--if any--might be in when people start believing "in" what they are being told literally, "i'm getting a mansion in the sky," rather than what is meant, "a place to dwell, spiritually," not stopping to consider that mansions don't exist in the sky, and there is no "place" called heaven; which this last statement will also get quite a bit of resistance, despite the many direct refs to this truth.

so, to be clear, "Mansions" could also be a perfectly acceptable allusion, just as valid as "nests," i'm sure, maybe even moreso if one is using the analogy of "building a Temple, on the Foundation of Christ."

it is just maybe a good idea to get people who indicate that they believe they are going to a physical place, and getting an actual mansion--which is common in people who have accepted that "the Word" = "the Bible"--thinking along more spiritual lines.

Yes, we all know now that there are lots of interesting things out in space but physical heavenly mansions are not among them. I think of heaven as being in another dimension; quite real spiritually, like the angels which the Bible says could be all around us - but for now we don't normally have the capacity to detect such spiritual things. On the other hand Revelation says there will eventually be a new heaven and a new earth, where believers will have glorified (and resurrected, if necessary) bodies - whether that will all be physical or spiritual shouldn't matter.

well, you might come to see that the Revelation is just another allegory that you may use on yourself, and the Kingdom is right here, right now, very close to you, in your mouth, and in your heart, and all eschatology does is suggest some guesses about the future, from, essentially, little children, debating where babies come from.

We are told to be aware of those angels, those spirits, be attuned to them, even be able to test them. We personify angels, because the Bible does, but spirits are...just that, things in the air, that are manifested, we make them, here on the physical plane, which is our inheritance, it's where we end up, our domain, our final resting place, on earth as it is in heaven, and you are sowing the seeds, right now, for what you will reap later, too, sure, but your best evidence for that is also right here, right now, isn't it.

So, heaven being "in another dimension" might be true in a sense, but that dimension is available to you right here, and right now. You will not, ever, be able to point to heaven; there is no place called heaven, and if someone points out some place they are calling heaven--meaning they are saying to you, "look, right here in the Book; heaven is there! in the future!--they are not telling you the truth, because of course they do not know, because there is a profound lesson available in "no one knows where they came from, or where they are going."

The dead Samuel talking to Saul through the Witch of Endor is the only Testimony that i am aware of on that. And it might help to see that if you went back even 100 years, and talked to anyone from 1916--other than maybe Tesla--and described your life to them, they would think you were lying. You, iow, have a new heaven--which i did not comment on, but it's there, too--and a new earth, right now, for better, and for worse, because we are reaping, right now, even as we are sowing for our posterity.

So, you are physical, and you are spiritual, right now, today, and the Kingdom is as near to you, right now, as you will have it be. This is Understand I AM. And just listen or read the other commentaries at that verse, that command, that will suggest to you that God is saying "understand blahblahblagh, something you couldn't possibly understand, some Title thingy that cannot possibly have any meaning for you, ever, and would be perfectly fine being written 'I Am' anyway," if they had any truth in them, and then see what you will see.

And if "the Revelation" is suggesting anything else to you, then go read it again, because i can tell you with confidence that God is not going to be participating in any apocalyptic, final, bloody battle at the spiritual center of the physical plane, over there in the plains of Megiddo, ok, those place-names all have spiritual meanings, that we still have the definitions for, and they are just allegories for you to apply to yourself; you have a spiritual center, too, and there is a war going on in you, too. That is the war God cares about. Don't be fooled ok. Blood running up to a horse's bridle is telling you something about now, the Book is all useful for right now, and all you are ever going to have is NOW. Ever. Eternally. Forever. Let the deceived spin castles in the sky, in fairy tales of tomorrow. God is not in them. God is all done. And Christ is all done. I got quotes, Witnesses, that Witness each other, for that.

"This is the maximum level of being with me." huh, whaddya know, even DuckDuckGo gets that one right, hmm.

Stu wrote:
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonderful works in Your name?' But then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you. Depart from Me, you who practice evil'" (Matt. 7:21-23).

This passage clearly indicates that they who practice evil will not go to heaven even though they were once saved.

Isn't it ironic that whenever we feel we have to use the word, "clearly", the meaning is really not as clear as we think?

These verses in Matthew are a good example of why we should not be fruit inspectors. These "many", spoken of here, show signs of being a believer. They show signs of "good fruit". Yet they were never saved!

As I said before, it really comes down to more than our interpretation of scripture on the issue of osas. It comes down to God. Do we believe in a God who promises us eternal life when we trust in Christ for salvation? Do we trust in a God who places His seal upon us, The Holy Spirit, who will NEVER leave us?

Or,

As some here have promoted, do we trust in a weak, pathetic god that doesn't keep his promises, and abandons his children when they sin, and stray from him?

Seems like a pretty easy decision, doesn't it?

But hey, if you want to believe in a weak, pathetic, false god, false Christ, and false gospel...

And what if a once Christian no longer believes that Jesus died for their sins, and instead turns to Islam or Buddhism?

Then a loving God, who promises that He will never leave nor forsake us, will woo us back to a loving relationship with Him! What a pathetic god you serve, who would abandon his children when they are weak!

Fortunately, our God will never leave us!

RickD wrote:

Stu wrote:
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonderful works in Your name?' But then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you. Depart from Me, you who practice evil'" (Matt. 7:21-23).

This passage clearly indicates that they who practice evil will not go to heaven even though they were once saved.

Isn't it ironic that whenever we feel we have to use the word, "clearly", the meaning is really not as clear as we think?

These verses in Matthew are a good example of why we should not be fruit inspectors. These "many", spoken of here, show signs of being a believer. They show signs of "good fruit". Yet they were never saved!

As I said before, it really comes down to more than our interpretation of scripture on the issue of osas. It comes down to God. Do we believe in a God who promises us eternal life when we trust in Christ for salvation? Do we trust in a God who places His seal upon us, The Holy Spirit, who will NEVER leave us?

Or,

As some here have promoted, do we trust in a weak, pathetic god that doesn't keep his promises, and abandons his children when they sin, and stray from him?

Seems like a pretty easy decision, doesn't it?

But hey, if you want to believe in a weak, pathetic, false god, false Christ, and false gospel...

And what if a once Christian no longer believes that Jesus died for their sins, and instead turns to Islam or Buddhism?

Then a loving God, who promises that He will never leave nor forsake us, will woo us back to a loving relationship with Him! What a pathetic god you serve, who would abandon his children when they are weak!

Fortunately, our God will never leave us!

No no no that is NOT how it works!!!! If we choose to leave God, He is not obligated to woo us back, where in the Bible does it say that???? You are making things up now.

Can God woo us back, sure He can, but by no means does He have to, that is what free will is all about.

Are you telling me that from that passage you don't get that the people were saved? Nowhere does it say "signs of being saved".

As some here have promoted, do we trust in a weak, pathetic god that doesn't keep his promises, and abandons his children when they sin, and stray from him?

Seems like a pretty easy decision, doesn't it?

But hey, if you want to believe in a weak, pathetic, false god, false Christ, and false gospel...

You are preaching a very dangerous message my friend, very dangerous.

It is not God who has abandoned us, but it is us who has abandoned God! Can you not see the difference?????

We have free will to do whatever we want, and that includes not having a relationship with God, he gave us the free will to do so.

That includes worshipping other "gods". God is a loving God but He also says He is a jealous God and you shall have no other Gods before Him.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)

If you no longer believe in Jesus, you no longer have a route to the Father or heaven.

Like I said, you are preaching a very dangerous message... it's basically telling Christians they can do whatever they want, whenever they want and they will still be saved. In today's climate and the many lukewarm Christians out there it is very dangerous to tell Christians that, not just because it might lead them to sin continually without caring but because it is just plain wrong.....

thrillobyte

I followed all this "Return of Christ" stuff beginning in 1970 with Late Great Planet Earth and saw predictions of 1988, 1992, 1998, 2007, 2012 and now the latest 2017 explode in the faces of the people who predicted them.

I know what you're referring to with the 2017 thing. It is exactly 100 years from the time General Allenby walked into Jerusalem in 1917 and 50 years Jubilee to the 6-day War of 1967 and then another Jubilee from 1967 to 2017. But let me please tell you: there's nothing to it. 2017 will come and go and then we'll be into 2018. And think also of this: Possibly the 70 year generation of Psalm 90 started with 1967. That would push the return date to 2037.

I fell for all this return of Jesus malarkey and I'm trying to save you all the grief I experienced of the years wearing on with no rapture and no return. Don't give up your life in suffering waiting for such hopeless things. Get a life; find a good girl girl or guy, marry her/him, have a family and grow old together after all your children have grown and gone off on their own. That's the only thing in life worth pursuing.

Signed, someone who wasted their life chasing a dream and only recently woke up to that sad reality at the age of 64.

daqq

After twenty seven years of believing all the same things, (and as you did, I broke in my first "spiritual teeth" chewing and digesting the Late Great Planet Earth), I also came to a day of reckoning and a startling awakening. However the outcome has not been the same; for my awakening from the dead occurred when the Son of man came and showed me that my garment was filthy, (and he showed me with fire). But as for what you have said about all those things before that day: you are absolutely right, it is all nothing more than a cash cow or golden calf for the modern pseudo-prophets, that is, poisonous spiritual food having been offered up to their inner idols, (to become men of renown and for the sake of the "all mighty" greenback eye-of-Horus US dollar bill).

if there were no buyers, there would be no sellers

Scripture DOES tell us that No One on earth knows the time or day or anything related to when the rapture will take place -- that Only the Father in heaven knows. And, yes, people have been speculating for Years and numerous dates have come and gone. But , please, no one here is omniscient (having all knowledge). But the concept of 'live and let live' and don't be concerned about some event that Might be happening IS dangerous. Read God's Word to us. The New Testament tells us all we need to know --

And -- regarding the mansions in heaven that are waiting for believers. Check out John 14:1-6 Both the KJV and NKJV use the word 'mansion' -- the older NIV uses the word 'many rooms'. John 14:2.

Yes, there Are Lots of books 'out there' that are sold -- people Are curious about what's going to happen in the future. The Bible is a good place to start.

Just making it plan and simple

Luke says that Some will believe then later stop believing. We know they believed because Jesus said they believed and we know they stopped believing because Jesus said they only believed for a while then fell away.

So what did they fall away from? They fell away from there belief. So they stopped believing.

Luk 8:13  They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. 

So because of Luke we know that just because we believe to day dose not mean we will believe tomorrow we can stop believing. Now that we know that we can stop believing this next verse say that the unbelieving shall go to the lake of fire.

So either you believe and you are on your way to heaven or you do not believe and you are no your way top hell.

Rev_21:8  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

this verses are more verses that say different then osas. Because if osas were right then these verses would be wrong. Because if all I have to do is believe one time in my life then it doesn't matter what I do after that then this verse lies.

Gal 5:19  Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 
Gal 5:20  Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 
Gal 5:21  Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 

crochet1949 wrote:Scripture DOES tell us that No One on earth knows the time or day or anything related to when the rapture will take place

ok