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Re: The biblical flood date
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:06 am
by Nessa
Whats the quote? Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
What kinda amuses me is that people get surprised and frustrated with the way people here respond to them. But people often have been the way they are for awhile...
And people are still like
Re: The biblical flood date
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:05 am
by neo-x
Mods, Jac did say one thing right, intellectual dishonesty when is that obvious should be ignored. I don't think that is wrong, calling a spade, a spade. ACB can really test your limit that you feel you are banging your head on the wall for the 1000th time.
By the way is this permaban thing related to the other day between Phillip and Jac?
Re: The biblical flood date
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:14 am
by Nessa
For sure, call a spade a spade and if the response you then get frustrates you, walk away.
Calling a spade several times over when the person is not in a space to really hear or understand what you are saying, is just going to cause frustration. And then the person complains which is no less annoying then the person not understanding.
Re: The biblical flood date
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:04 am
by neo-x
Nessa wrote:For sure, call a spade a spade and if the response you then get frustrates you, walk away.
Calling a spade several times over when the person is not in a space to really hear or understand what you are saying, is just going to cause frustration. And then the person complains which is no less annoying then the person not understanding.
Sure I understand, but almost everyone has done it from time to time here, Mods too, Jac isn't the first one. Our member FL was far more rude and blunt than Jac, he never got a public "permaban" warning though. Danieltwotwenty left almost exclusively because of FL bullying Dan. Gman did that too often (and I know members who were scared to post or pissed off because of him and probably some left too) and I almost left because of him once. B.W has been quoting scripture on people the same way Jac does many times.
And I have done it too at times so just saying, why a permaban? Sounds Drastic.
Re: The biblical flood date
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:36 am
by Nessa
neo-x wrote:Nessa wrote:For sure, call a spade a spade and if the response you then get frustrates you, walk away.
Calling a spade several times over when the person is not in a space to really hear or understand what you are saying, is just going to cause frustration. And then the person complains which is no less annoying then the person not understanding.
Sure I understand, but almost everyone has done it from time to time here, Mods too, Jac isn't the first one. Our member FL was far more rude and blunt than Jac, he never got a public "permaban" warning though. Danieltwotwenty left almost exclusively because of FL bullying Dan. Gman did that too often (and I know members who were scared to post or pissed off because of him and probably some left too) and I almost left because of him once. B.W has been quoting scripture on people the same way Jac does many times.
And I have done it too at times so just saying, why a permaban? Sounds Drastic.
In FL's defense (not that he needs me sticking up for him) he actually left partly because he felt he was too blunt. I have much respect for him after myself badly misjudging him. That's the problem with boards or even the online medium of communication. Lots of barriers to see where someone is truly coming from.
There's inconsistency about this kind of thing for sure. Some seem to get away with alot more than others but I believe the mods try to do their best. We are all human. And in the end someone has to make a decision.
Re: The biblical flood date
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:40 am
by neo-x
Nessa wrote:neo-x wrote:Nessa wrote:For sure, call a spade a spade and if the response you then get frustrates you, walk away.
Calling a spade several times over when the person is not in a space to really hear or understand what you are saying, is just going to cause frustration. And then the person complains which is no less annoying then the person not understanding.
Sure I understand, but almost everyone has done it from time to time here, Mods too, Jac isn't the first one. Our member FL was far more rude and blunt than Jac, he never got a public "permaban" warning though. Danieltwotwenty left almost exclusively because of FL bullying Dan. Gman did that too often (and I know members who were scared to post or pissed off because of him and probably some left too) and I almost left because of him once. B.W has been quoting scripture on people the same way Jac does many times.
And I have done it too at times so just saying, why a permaban? Sounds Drastic.
In FL's defense (not that he needs me sticking up for him) he actually left partly because he felt he was too blunt. I have much respect for him after myself badly misjudging him. That's the problem with boards or even the online medium of communication. Lots of barriers to see where someone is truly coming from.
There's inconsistency about this kind of thing for sure. Some seem to get away with alot more than others but I believe the mods try to do their best. We are all human. And in the end someone has to make a decision.
Exactly, my point. So why permaban?
(I have nothing personal against FL, just saying it because I am actually grateful to him because he was very helpful in some of my ministry work here in Pakistan)
Re: The biblical flood date
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:48 am
by Nessa
Maybe some members should be banned from talking to one another
Find separate places in the sandpit to play.
Though guess I'm as guilty as anyone really.
Re: The biblical flood date
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:32 am
by abelcainsbrother
I just do not understand why people can get so upset just because you don't agree.I don't,now sure I'm gonna try to back up what I believe is true and it can get frustrating when you feel like you have backed yourself up and yet it is ignored. But I've had many discussions on here and I've never got mean or nasty over a disagreement and to me it makes a person look weak when they do it.This forum has room for disagreement and especially if we are a Christian.Nobody has a 100% authority on their interpretation,yet for a lot of us we really believe our interpretation or belief is the correct one.I think some people avoid discussing certain things because they see certain people get so upset over somebody disagreeing with them.We can agree to disagree and not get mean or nasty about it.
What bothers me the most has to do with salvation and heresies when it comes to the gospel of Jesus Christ our Lord,differences in interpretations like creation,flood,etc are not nearly as important as if a person is truly saved or not,or if they are promoting some false gospel teaching.As long as a person has truly been saved by Jesus whatever creation interpretation they believe or whether or not they accept a world wide or local flood,etc does not make them not a Christian,they are a brother or sister in Christ,regardless,but I think we should be able to discuss our differences in order to make sure we have not overlooked anything and to make sure we are right or not and even to challenge ourselves honestly with the Holy Spirit as our guide to truth.
Re: The biblical flood date
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:34 am
by crochet1949
acb -- isn't at least Part of the 'point' , though, that salvation has been made possible Through a series of miracles? Events that Are out of the ordinary. The virgin birth, bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ / people have been trying to discount those events for a Long time. So How IS salvation attained? What Does constitute true salvation? Isn't the Big Picture -- God is Almighty God -- THE creator of this universe -- our being willing to give Him the honor and glory that HE deserves. And the great flood -- isn't it the Reason For It the more important 'conversation'?
And, is there any reason that God Could NOT have created this world in exactly the way He told us He did in Genesis. Does God's way Need to make sense to us?
Those of us who are parents -- we teach our kids to obey us. There lives Might depend on their willingness to Listen and Obey without questioning. We have rules / standards for behavior in our house. It's Our house and we are raising them within Our house -- they don't have to Like the rules, may not Appreciate the rules, might not Understand the rules -- until they are grown up -- but there Are consequences for Not obeying the rules. And, sometimes , for their personal safety - we say NO. They don't Like 'No', but it doesn't really Matter at that stage in their lives.
There are Lots of things We don't understand -- that certainly doesn't mean they didn't happen. WE might think Our way would be somewhat Better than what God says He did. But , He IS the Almighty God who did it HIS way -- He didn't need to ask for our approval or permission.
Okay -- I've 'said my peace'. Will get breakfast
Re: The biblical flood date
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:39 am
by Audie
There is some thing a bit off about standing on the moral high ground while referring to others with words such as "so upset, mean, nasty, weak, lie,"
all because "they dont agree". Or so it seems to me.
Likewise the ban threat for speaking the truth, in a deeply sincere effort to
set someone straight when they've gone totally off the rail. Im not a big pal of jac, we've gone 'round a time or too, but this stinks.
Re: The biblical flood date
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:55 am
by Audie
crochet1949 wrote:
And, is there any reason that God Could NOT have created this world in exactly the way He told us He did in Genesis. Does God's way Need to make sense to us?
)
Of course, if there is a God he could have filled the seas with pink unicorns, too. But he did not. It isnt about whether it "makes sense". Go look; no unicorns. Go look; no flood. It requires looking a bit harder and longer, but at the end, it just is not there.
He
could have done a world wide flood, then cleaned up all the evidence, leaving in its place everything you'd see if there'd been no flood.
There are so many ways to demonstrate it didnt happen! And nothing but (one way of interpreting) a story to say it did.
The ice I referred to is one of a great many, but it is simple and easy to understand.
Concocted falsehoods like the -9C temperature means the ice is frozen solid to the rock are just that; concocted falsehoods, flights of fantasy. Glaciers do not start and stop. They keep going, as countless hours of glacier research most clearly shows.
That such transparently false and flimsy "evidence" should be called up really says it all.
Im not the bible scholar, but they are there in plenty to explain why hanging the entire truth of the whole bible on a literal global flood reading of genesis
is as wrongheaded as the stuck glacier fantasy.
I'd not be such a fool as to say the bible is false just because there was no flood, it does no credit to anyone to do the same thing in reverse.
Re: The biblical flood date
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:57 am
by Audie
crochet1949 wrote:A comment -- for many years people from all over the world have come to the United States to get educated at our various research hospitals / universities and go back to their home countries to care for their own people. One particular person has come from HC and graduated from Berkeley - not to go back To HC, but to get the best education available and land get a really good job in NYC.
It's not intellectual dishonesty -- but beliefs held by lots of people simply because that's how they choose To believe.
It's Because higher education debunks anything related to God's Word / Bible. Higher education embraces evolution / Old earth concepts -- Really old earth -- because - in reality -- it easily takes God out of the picture -- no real need for Any 'god'. Much less one who creates anything like Bible tells us. And really -- Lots in the Bible / God's Word is NOT 'logical'. God is Trying to get our attention. Here is MY WORD -- Please take at least a Few moments To READ it. Actually LISTEN to what I AM saying to you. Before it is Eternally Too Late.
Intellectualism is saying that 'we' don't need anything other than our own brains -- Logic. "We" somehow managed to develop from a one-celled entity to become a full-blown, intellectual Man.
The glass is half Empty or half Full. It's the same amount of liquid. Perspective. The half Empty Could tell one person One thing and half Full could tell someone Else something different.
There is the world of fossils -- they Do exist, yes. But what are the 'experts' trying to Prove With them. Depends on what group is being talked to.
In one person's perspective -- that which is taking this country 'down' is our blatant ignoring of God's Word. And maybe not Ignoring it --but attacking it -- knowing what Is written and purposely doing Contrary to it. The attitude of 'I'll do what I want to with whomever is willing to do it With me or by myself' and I'll simply take the consequences -- we're becoming a 'Me" society. And THAT is dangerous.
Again -- it's not necessarily Ignorance -- It's acknowledging the information and choosing how I am going to act on it.
We see a persons' name with a degree and Assume they are smarter than We are. We are willing to take Their word and let them 'spoon feed us'. No one has All knowledge on Any subject. Everyone has the ability to research and agree or Disagree on the findings of others.
And, you're right -- there are some things that No one Likes to hear , but we need to hear it Anyway.
I think it is best I dont engage you on this topic.
Re: The biblical flood date
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:19 am
by Nessa
I agree, Jac sincerely wants to communicate truth.
But like me, he can be over emotional in his responses
It wasnt so long ago he was threatening Acb that if he didnt stop what he was doing he would
talk to the mods! Probably try get him warned.
The truth needs to be well aimed. It is no good shooting arrows in the dark, blindly hoping one will
reach the target purely by chance. Everyone has their own place where they can be 'hit' with the truth and it will
actually penetrate.
Jac keeps firing blindly.
Re: The biblical flood date
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:19 am
by neo-x
abelcainsbrother wrote:I just do not understand why people can get so upset just because you don't agree.I don't,now sure I'm gonna try to back up what I believe is true and it can get frustrating when you feel like you have backed yourself up and yet it is ignored. But I've had many discussions on here and I've never got mean or nasty over a disagreement and to me it makes a person look weak when they do it.This forum has room for disagreement and especially if we are a Christian.Nobody has a 100% authority on their interpretation,yet for a lot of us we really believe our interpretation or belief is the correct one.I think some people avoid discussing certain things because they see certain people get so upset over somebody disagreeing with them.We can agree to disagree and not get mean or nasty about it.
What bothers me the most has to do with salvation and heresies when it comes to the gospel of Jesus Christ our Lord,differences in interpretations like creation,flood,etc are not nearly as important as if a person is truly saved or not,or if they are promoting some false gospel teaching.As long as a person has truly been saved by Jesus whatever creation interpretation they believe or whether or not they accept a world wide or local flood,etc does not make them not a Christian,they are a brother or sister in Christ,regardless,but I think we should be able to discuss our differences in order to make sure we have not overlooked anything and to make sure we are right or not and even to challenge ourselves honestly with the Holy Spirit as our guide to truth.
The problem isn't disagreement, it is intellectual dishonesty, may that be unintentional. In other words, it's not what you are saying (although you are wrong on that front), it's how you engage without anything to backup except your opinion, which is just that, and everyone has one. But you need to cite studies and accept criticism where it falls when you are talking about complicated things like glacial ice.
Re: The biblical flood date
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:28 am
by crochet1949
Audie -- why not engage me on this topic -- I was mentioning more than one topic --so which are you referring to. On the subject of fossils, alone, someone could 'rip me to shreds' with technical information that I'd have no way to confirm or deny with my limited knowledge on the subject. But I Do know what 'sounds right' based on other information in other areas. And someone Could decide to challenge me on What information from What source. And I'd immediately be up a rapidly moving creek with a Very small paddle. Most information I'd have would be from Google and My chosen source would not be accepted by someone with a different perspective. So I Also would have to agree that I allow myself to Be 'spoon fed' information , but from sources that I trust. And I'd base That on what 'settles' better with me.
The debate about a local / global flood is but an example of whether a person acknowledges the existence of God and His power / ability TO.
How about a flood / Tons of water from both directions = both Under the earth and from rain coming from the sky -- enough to kill every living creature / person on the planet. And because people had chosen to live in such a vile, wicked way that God/our creator / decided it best to destroy them -- BUT Not before Warning them for a Long time of what was coming. It Sounds like people don't like to held accountable for their actions by some Being who is More Powerful.
And it Is more than taking responsibility for our own actions -- because Lots of people Don't. They blame someone / Anyone for their problems. So -- yes -- by all means we take responsibility for our own actions and pay the penalty. BUT bring in that Higher Power and 'No Thanks'. And a spiritual world that is invisible -- No Way. If I can't See it -- I Won't believe in it.
But there Are aspects of life that Can't be 'seen', except on a person's face / a peacefulness that can't be put in a petri dish or 'seen' like a person's arm or leg. 'Love' can be an emotion that isn't Visible except through the actions of the person Feeling it / Showing it.