Evidence for God from Science

Jac3510 wrote:

tunde1992 wrote:

Jac3510 wrote:

Audie wrote:The outlandish fakery of many nominal Christians is very disturbing. I can well understand the yearning of many for purity in their church, seeing the maggot ridden mass of corruption that
so much of it is.

Of course, Talibans think that way too. Purity, purity.

Matt 13:24-30

If I'm understanding the parable correctly, it's referring to bad seed among the good, or perhaps that Satan has planted many within to lead people astray(cults, false doctrine) and many that give a bad look to christ

I think that's more right than not. Regardless of the specifics (and I think we tend to get a bit too specific when interpreting the parables), the application here is that the church will never be "pure," and you do a lot more harm by shooting for purity. Heck, even Jesus tolerated a devil in his inner circle. Our job is to love unconditionally, to correct errors graciously where we encounter them, and to ultimately commit all judgment to Jesus. We'll only find purity after the resurrection. Until then, specks and logs and such things.

"'The church will never be 'pure' "' -- because every person in this world is born a sinner -- hopefully the pastor of said church is teaching Bible and presenting the only way that a person can become a 'born-again' sinner / believer. The New Testament is full of guidelines for 'how to live a more Godly/Christ like life'. And That is what each believer should be aiming towards. "correcting errors where we encounter them" -- which means that people's lives are being observed as we live life day by day and should be compared to God's Word. No one is going to achieve a perfect life while here on earth. Only God is really capable of unconditional love. We simply do the best we can to love one another. But there Are activities that should Not be condoned amongst church people. What we Need to do is lovingly let standards be known // Biblical standards of morals / ethics and when people choose to Not follow / accept those standards -- well , there are going to be negative consequences. Just like in our homes when we're raising our kids.

Jesus came to save the sinners -- bring them to Himself. He mingled with 'us' in order to show us His way.

MickD you are wrong again.

Just because you believe does not mean you are saved.


Jas 2:19  Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 

what I said is if they have the same belief as the devil they are going to hell.

You are to busy trying to prove me wrong that you are over looking the context of my post

not making your self look that smart.

jpbg33 wrote:MickD you are wrong again.

Just because you believe does not mean you are saved.


Jas 2:19  Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 

what I said is if they have the same belief as the devil they are going to hell.

You are to busy trying to prove me wrong that you are over looking the context of my post

not making your self look that smart.

Let's look again at what jpbg said:

When He comes back sinners are all going to hell weather they believe in him or not. When I say belief here I am referring to the kind of belief demons have. Believing Jesus is real is one thing and believing in Jesus as your savior is something much better.

Jpbg says that someone can believe in Christ, and still go to hell. And he says this because he believes that James 2:19 says that demons "believe in" Christ, and the demons aren't saved.

What jpbg fails to recognize, is the fact that if a person "believes in" someone, it means that person "puts his trust in" someone. Which is different than "believing" that God is one, as James 2:19 states. In other words, James 2:19 is simply saying that demons are monotheists. It's not saying, as jpbg contends, that demons "believe in" or "trust in" Christ, and aren't saved.

We can believe in jpbg's convoluted works-based false gospel, or we can believe the simple gospel found in John 3:16, which says that anyone, yes even sinners, who believe in Christ, have everlasting life.

jpbg believes you gotta get cleaned up to take a bath, to say nothing of just believing Jesus is a liar.

"Whoever believes in Me has everlasting life."
"Na-uh, Jesus. You are wrong. You also gotta stop sinning!"
"Oh, thanks for the correction. Sorry, y'all. I made a mistake."

Jac3510 wrote: jpbg believes you gotta get cleaned up to take a bath, to say nothing of just believing Jesus is a liar.

"Whoever believes in Me has everlasting life."
"Na-uh, Jesus. You are wrong. You also gotta stop sinning!"
"Oh, thanks for the correction. Sorry, y'all. I made a mistake."

May it is just me being snotty, but I cannot help but notice that our hardcore fundamentalists generally display very poor English skills. ( you noticed it too, hence your "gotta")

Audie wrote:

Jac3510 wrote: jpbg believes you gotta get cleaned up to take a bath, to say nothing of just believing Jesus is a liar.

"Whoever believes in Me has everlasting life."
"Na-uh, Jesus. You are wrong. You also gotta stop sinning!"
"Oh, thanks for the correction. Sorry, y'all. I made a mistake."

May it is just me being snotty, but I cannot help but notice that our hardcore fundamentalists generally display very poor English skills. ( you noticed it too, hence your "gotta")

Yes, you Are being snotty -- now how about This

Audie admits to being snotty --
Audie is an atheist
Atheists are snotty
But - we Know that not All atheists are snotty -- just one now and then.

And using the word 'gotta' represents very poor English skills ?! Oh, my goodness. (to all the English as first language people -- we Can't use the word 'gotta' any more. It's displaying our Very poor English skills)

Audie wrote:

Jac3510 wrote: jpbg believes you gotta get cleaned up to take a bath, to say nothing of just believing Jesus is a liar.

"Whoever believes in Me has everlasting life."
"Na-uh, Jesus. You are wrong. You also gotta stop sinning!"
"Oh, thanks for the correction. Sorry, y'all. I made a mistake."

May it is just me being snotty, but I cannot help but notice that our hardcore fundamentalists generally display very poor English skills. ( you noticed it too, hence your "gotta")

"May it is"? Grammar Nazi has an eye on you.

Audie never said I was an English professor

RickD If you read that chapter you will see James is talking about people clamming to have faith and that they are Christians because of there faith and he was showing those people there faith was know better then devils.

I believe he was really saying that if you do not have faith that is producing work then you do not have the faith to be saved.

I am writing my post in this thread to be neutral on the subject of osas on purpose.

Jac3510 No I believe if you take a bath you shouldn't get our until you are clean and I do not think Jesus is a liar you do.

I believe Jesus was telling the truth when he said healing and devils being cast out and people talking with new tongues would be see of them that "believe". So if we can still believe today then these thing are still far use to day, because the only requirement Jesus said far these things to happen is that you have to believe.

You are the one saying He lied that it was only for the Apostles.

jpbg33 wrote:Audie never said I was an English professor

RickD If you read that chapter you will see James is talking about people clamming to have faith and that they are Christians because of there faith and he was showing those people there faith was know better then devils.

I believe he was really saying that if you do not have faith that is producing work then you do not have the faith to be saved.

I am writing my post in this thread to be neutral on the subject of osas on purpose.

Jac3510 No I believe if you take a bath you shouldn't get our until you are clean and I do not think Jesus is a liar you do.

I believe Jesus was telling the truth when he said healing and devils being cast out and people talking with new tongues would be see of them that "believe". So if we can still believe today then these thing are still far use to day, because the only requirement Jesus said far these things to happen is that you have to believe.

You are the one saying he lied that it was only for the Apostles.

Well I think your lack of bible knowledge is disturbing so I guess we are even.

jpbg33 wrote:Well I think your lack of bible knowledge is disturbing so I guess we are even.

No. I'm even, you're odd.

I walked right in to that one.

I think the question of whether it's possible for me the answer is a definite yes!
Is it probable is another matter. Especially in today's environment of so called 'healers'
It's really an emotional topic. I think there are few of us that haven't prayed with upmost faith and hope to have the outcome not be what we wanted.
That in no way discredits the possibility but when you couple that with the ridiculousness of 'faith healings' in the setting it so often occurs, as I have witnessed within some churches sceptism and even cynism is warranted.
I think Rick was really spot on when he mentioned that in an instance where someone is healed, by what measure does that cross over from God doing the miraculous to a specific person or persons atrritubiting that to their own 'gift' of healing.
In the absence of a 'gifted' person truly laying their hands on our most sick, disabled and dying in a way that quantifiably cures and heals in a manner that equates to having the 'gift of healing', not in an instance but undeniably so.
God wills as He pleases, so this brings up the important notion that in every case there just won't be a 'Lazarus' healing. I totally get that.
But if anyone is going to label themselves as having the gift of healing then the assertion has to rest on the ability to display that gift. If it's a one off or ambiguous then the healing could be indirectly performed by any said person rather than by the miraculous work of God alone.
To claim a gift then you produce the outpouring.
Not because a group of cynics want proof but by the very nature of the claim there would have to be results. Not all the time of course but if we refer to scripture then those that claimed gifts of the Spirit did so not by proclaiming it but performing it.
To bring honour and Glory unto God.
I don't doubt for a second that God is at the forefront of many miracles around the world in any given moment or situation.
What I doubt is people individually claiming to have the gift of healing.
Are there instances where people have prayed on behalf of others and had the most miraculous outcomes? Without a doubt.
But there is a definitive difference.
To claim something as huge as being gifted with healing is really the big Kahuna of spiritual gifts. To cure someone is truly as miraculous as it gets because you have been anointed with the workings of God through your hands.
In that instance you would take that gift and spread it as far and wide as possible. Not for self benefit but to the Glory of God.
It's not a matter of if you've got it flaunt it but rather if you've been blessed so tremendously then spread that Glory where it's needed.

My sceptism arises because I have heard many claim the 'gift' but not outpour it.
That is counter intuitive to the purpose of such a gift.
If I was so blessed I would take it to masses.
Not for personal gain but to proclaim His Glory as far and wide as I could reach.
Not as token of my greatness but Gods.
Death and suffering is a human condition, escaping either is prolonging the inevitable. A miracle of escaping death at one point in time extends it to another time. My point being that the true miracle isn't escaping illness or death but rather the Goodness, compassion and Glory of God.
To be blessed with the gift of healing is for the purpose of exclaiming the brilliance of God to the world.
It's not something you make a truck load of cash off doing 'revivals' to packed out arenas or that you post on YouTube.
You would be healing
sometimes nothing more than a cold and other times the deaf, and blind and dying.

jpbg33 wrote:Audie never said I was an English professor

RickD If you read that chapter you will see James is talking about people clamming to have faith and that they are Christians because of there faith and he was showing those people there faith was know better then devils.

I believe he was really saying that if you do not have faith that is producing work then you do not have the faith to be saved.

I am writing my post in this thread to be neutral on the subject of osas on purpose.

Jac3510 No I believe if you take a bath you shouldn't get our until you are clean and I do not think Jesus is a liar you do.

I believe Jesus was telling the truth when he said healing and devils being cast out and people talking with new tongues would be see of them that "believe". So if we can still believe today then these thing are still far use to day, because the only requirement Jesus said far these things to happen is that you have to believe.

You are the one saying He lied that it was only for the Apostles.

You definitely are NOT an English professor -- but you Could work a lot more on grammar / spelling, etc.

Some activities in the New Testament were meant only for that specific time in history.

Obviously Jesus Christ is Not a liar -- so it's obviously people who are misapplying Scripture. Speaking in tongues is NOT a requirement of salvation nor a sign that salvation has taken place. In Acts -- Peter was sharing the Gospel with a group of Jews and they were amazed that each of them could understand what was being said - in their own language. That is tongues.

jpbg33 wrote:You are the one saying He lied that it was only for the Apostles.

I actually never said that. Just yet another example of your problems with reading comprehension. No wonder you don't believe John 3:16.