The great atheist questionnaire....

[Gman]

It's not non-existent. It's just non-divine.

Not that it doesn't exist... It's degraded.

[Gman]

Do you really want to go the way of wishful thinking? Would you go on believing in God simply because the alternative was too unattractive to you? I for one could never genuinely believe a proposition out of pure desire. As much as I want something to be true, my desire will never make it true.

Unfortunately you have already stated earlier that we only have a "hypothesis" for the existence of life.. A "best fit" answer. Nothing is exclusive or has ultimate answers or meaning especially around the topic of origins. It's all relative in that sense.. In that respect you could genuinely believe a proposition out of your pure desire.

[zoegirl]

well obviously we don't regard it as wishful thinking (the context in the book would explain that) we regard it as true

it is still true that you have nothing to offer that remotely compares....atheism is, at its most elemental, an empty proposition. You must simply hope that most in society still have the same brain chemistry as you. There is no hope in anything. Truly seeing the equality in all moral positions, the hero *is* the sap, the sucker and the villain is the smart crafty one. Might as well scheme to cheat and lie, after all, there are no consequences...sure, occasionally throw in that dollar in the charity jar, round up to that dollar amount, and do some volunteering for that rush of feeling good (still a selfish motive, we feel good when we give....) but the smart one lives it up.

[B. W.]

If this "dull world" is the world that atheism offers, of meaningless meaning, of meaningless nobility save that of some dopamine and serotonin induced "feel-good" reaction when we complete a behavior (for that is all it is), then you are welcome to it.

It might be nothing more than a rush of endorphins, or it may be something else entirely. It doesn't change my subjective experience either way, and I don't find the world dull.

Rather pointless statement isn't, TC?
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[zoegirl]

lol, talk about wishful thinking!!

[touchingcloth]

If this "dull world" is the world that atheism offers, of meaningless meaning, of meaningless nobility save that of some dopamine and serotonin induced "feel-good" reaction when we complete a behavior (for that is all it is), then you are welcome to it.

It might be nothing more than a rush of endorphins, or it may be something else entirely. It doesn't change my subjective experience either way, and I don't find the world dull.

Rather pointless statement isn't, TC?
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Is it?

[B. W.]

If this "dull world" is the world that atheism offers, of meaningless meaning, of meaningless nobility save that of some dopamine and serotonin induced "feel-good" reaction when we complete a behavior (for that is all it is), then you are welcome to it.

It might be nothing more than a rush of endorphins, or it may be something else entirely. It doesn't change my subjective experience either way, and I don't find the world dull.

Rather pointless statement isn't, TC?
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Is it?

So who cares about your feelings about not finding the world dull?
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[Gabrielman]

If this "dull world" is the world that atheism offers, of meaningless meaning, of meaningless nobility save that of some dopamine and serotonin induced "feel-good" reaction when we complete a behavior (for that is all it is), then you are welcome to it.

It might be nothing more than a rush of endorphins, or it may be something else entirely. It doesn't change my subjective experience either way, and I don't find the world dull.

Rather pointless statement isn't, TC?
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TC What does this empty pointless world have to offer then without reason or purpose behind it? Without God all you have is an empty pointless existence. What is there to live for, why love, why feel, why do anything? Live you life day after day for nothing. Wake up, go to work, come home, go to bed, get up, go to work..... live for nothing other than to die, and then have nothing to look forward to? It's like one of the songs I posted:
Fall to your knees (Accomplish nothing]
Fall to your knees only to excersise your schedule
That is the first lines in the song, to me it says that such a life is pointless, in the end what have you really done? What have you truly accomplished, what is the point? You work all your life for nothing? I do not believe so, I believe in more, I believe that there is purpose and reason to life, and I believe that there is more to it all, and that when you die there is somewhere for you to go, rather than to be a cold dead body in the ground. I believe that God made us all for a reason, and that in the end we get to spend eternity in paradise with Him if we so chose to do so during life! That is just my short take on this all, God bless!

[hatsoff]

it is still true that you have nothing to offer that remotely compares....

Oh, I'm not claiming to offer you anything but realism and truth. If you want comfort, then religion is definitely a viable option. But I'm not so much interested in comfort as I am in knowledge of how the universe works.

So, if we wish to discuss whether or not God exists, then we can leave morality entirely aside.

[touchingcloth]

Oh, I'm not claiming to offer you anything but realism and truth. If you want comfort, then religion is definitely a viable option. But I'm not so much interested in comfort as I am in knowledge of how the universe works.

"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

[DannyM]

it is still true that you have nothing to offer that remotely compares....

Oh, I'm not claiming to offer you anything but realism and truth. If you want comfort, then religion is definitely a viable option. But I'm not so much interested in comfort as I am in knowledge of how the universe works.

So, if we wish to discuss whether or not God exists, then we can leave morality entirely aside.

And you and I both have access to that knowledge. Your quest for knowledge is no greater than mine. I don't just ask how the universe works, I want to know *why* the universe works. You may not wish to indulge in such questioning, but for you to stop at "how" and not to persue it any further than that is no more rational than for me to to go one step further than that and ask why? So your lofty claims of "knowledge" are just bogus, as your search for knowledge is no greater than the theist's.

[zoegirl]

And the atheist wants some veneer of meaning in life. A hopeless facade of "let's grab life while we can and do some good while we are here" all the while pushing away the stark realization that there *is* no good from their worldview. The cheat and liar is just as good as they are and oftentimes the smarter ones, gaining wealth and being healthier, living longer.

this is what the atheist worldview *should* advocate (or at least realize that it can advocate) and And you know, you said it yourself, you want comfort? Not going to be found in atheism....well here it is...the great atheism slogan....LIFE SUCKS, sucks to be you..

Life is unfair, stop b*tching about it, too bad for you:
Poor? too bad, guess you should fight as best you can...do the best you can....why? who knows? you will die in the end
Hungry? go steal...why not?
Taken advantage of....shoot, buyer beware....should have been smarter....sucks to be you
There is nothing noble, righteous, good, evil, the charlatan is equal to the honest seller....

Life sucks

we are all animals after all....
The beautiful get the first choice and that is perfectly fine...
The weak are be picked on, as it is in the animal world, there can be social hierarchies...perfectly fine
The pretty babies get ooohed and aahhed over and that's fine....should have picked a better spouse
Laziness is fine if you are smart about it.
Cheating is fine if you are smart about it.

A scene from the movie Office Space

he thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care.
Bob Porter: Don't... don't care?
Peter Gibbons: It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my *ss off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation? And here's something else, Bob: I have eight different bosses right now.
Bob Slydell: I beg your pardon?
Peter Gibbons: Eight bosses.
Bob Slydell: Eight?
Peter Gibbons: Eight, Bob. So that means that when I make a mistake, I have eight different people coming by to tell me about it. That's my only real motivation is not to be hassled, that and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired.

And that is perfectly fine....in the atheist worldview, there is nothing noble about doing your best (some may want to do their best, but that has nothing to do with their philosophy, just some quirk of their behaviors) and it seems very reasonable when he explains it like that. Shoot, sounds good!


this isn't about comfort. Anyone who choose Christianity for comfort is silly. This is not some hide-under-our-blanket because "oh, the world is so scary"...it's facing the truth....of course, you won't agree, that's hardly surprising by now.

It is about figuring out the right place for the world. And if Atheism provides that niche for you, hey go for it. But it seems that many don't really own their philosophy.

[Kurieuo]

it is still true that you have nothing to offer that remotely compares....

Oh, I'm not claiming to offer you anything but realism and truth. If you want comfort, then religion is definitely a viable option. But I'm not so much interested in comfort as I am in knowledge of how the universe works.

Unless you're willing to label Atheism a religious worldview, that's a delusory statement if I ever saw one. Atheism definitely has its own comforts.

As zoegirl touches on though, I'm not sure what comfort has to do with whether beliefs are real and true (if that is what you are really offering here).

[DannyM]

it is still true that you have nothing to offer that remotely compares....

Oh, I'm not claiming to offer you anything but realism and truth. If you want comfort, then religion is definitely a viable option. But I'm not so much interested in comfort as I am in knowledge of how the universe works.

Unless you're willing to label Atheism a religious worldview, that's a delusory statement if I ever saw one. Atheism definitely has its own comforts.

As zoegirl touches on though, I'm not sure what comfort has to do with whether beliefs are real and true (if that is what you are really offering here).

Exactamundo. If some people find their belief comforting then good for them. But there is no rational connection you can make from this to whether or not the belief is true or false. So 'comfort' can not be some sort of 'exhibit A' in a case against the truthfulness of a person's beliefs.

[Gman]

this isn't about comfort. Anyone who choose Christianity for comfort is silly. This is not some hide-under-our-blanket because "oh, the world is so scary"...it's facing the truth....of course, you won't agree, that's hardly surprising by now. .

I would agree with this.. Do you know how many times I lust after material things? Fornication, envy? Heck even drugs or booze.. But as a Christian I know it's better for me not too.. I have to hold back. Otherwise I know there are consequences not only in this world but in the afterlife as well..