Evidence for God from Science

NAMBLA actually did have a large gay support base a few years back

Ivellious wrote:But that still has no effect on you. Gay men understand the risks just like someone who smokes. That's not your concern to police their lives. Besides, I doubt most people who want to put a ban on gay people are seriously interested in the health of the gay people they desire to oppress.

Is 'immorality' defined as a behavior that directly hurts someone other than yourself?

And this isn't just a focus on those who practice homosexuality either. What about those who practice fornication or pornography too?? We all get lumped into the SAME boat of sin... Everyone sins. Those who practice any type of sexual immorality are just as guilty..

Just look how the pornography business has destroyed many many lives including families...

G-d save us..

Gman wrote:And this isn't just a focus on those who practice homosexuality either. What about those who practice fornication or pornography too?? We all get lumped into the SAME boat of sin... Everyone sins. Those who practice any type of sexual immorality are just as guilty..

Just look how the pornography business has destroyed many many lives including families...

G-d save us..

Exactly... lust is a sin, regardless of what form it takes. Homosexuality is always lumped in with adultery and fornication in Scripture. They are all different ways to break what God designed to be good.

This is one subject in which I hold an unpopular opinion compared to most Christians. For the sake of my own faith, it's probably best if I don't even read the rest of the responses in this topic. It's disheartening to see someone that I respect saying something that I perceive as hateful. I don't mean to offend anyone, that's just the way I feel about it.

BOBtheMASTER wrote:This is one subject in which I hold an unpopular opinion compared to most Christians. For the sake of my own faith, it's probably best if I don't even read the rest of the responses in this topic. It's disheartening to see someone that I respect saying something that I perceive as hateful. I don't mean to offend anyone, that's just the way I feel about it.

How is it hateful to condem the sin but not the sinner?



Dan

Gandhi had the great input for this, kind of like what Daniel said "love the sinner, HATE the sin"

Also some intepretations of the bible ( I think the good news bible) actually translate Leviticus 18:22 including "because he HATES that"

What's frustrating about this whole topic is when the other side says that "its not a sin" or even better "there's no such thing as sin" because "there's no such thing as God" or "there's no objective morality" etc etc.. -.-

Hi St Monica

Nice to see you back.
How is everything going?


Dan

Hi Dan!!! Good to be back. I can't tell you how often I thought of each of you this past month. I really, really missed reading comments and discussing all the things we discuss here (which really is a lot! ). Ahhhh, it's nice to be back amongst like-minds. That's it -- no matter how busy I get I must make time to at least read the forums at least once a day and comment when I can (that is, if I have anything worth contributing )
Thanks for the flower-con. Very kind!

cypher wrote:Do you believe that being homosexual is wrong?
People are born heterosexual or homosexual. This is a big problem for people, and demonizes religion for an atheist. Most people i know will laugh at the idea of religion because of the lack of caring they show for homosexuality.
shouldn't Christians disregard the passages that deny homosexuals a right to love? Just like they disregard the passage that does not allow shellfish?

Hello and thank you for your post. As a Christ Follower, Im not called to like everyone , their behavior, or their agenda in society. Im also not called to be tolerant of every and any lifestyle that people come up with. The primary reasons anyone would not find homosexuality permissable are as follows :

1. The proven health risks which are now and STD Epidemic amongst the homosexual community. This is harming the Player as well as innocent Spouses where their Partner is bi sexual and brings an STD back to the marriage bed. Ive personally seen this alot . But just the health risks among homosexuals is very alarming : http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... o0075.html .

2, The actual sex acts among homosexuals are harmful , per the site I posted if you scroll down . Further, they are perverted because they are so unnatural ., degrading, and deviant.

3. The homosexual agenda includes homosexual groups getting into grade schools and jr. High Schools to push their ideologies and to convince students if they feel the least bit of same sex attraction, then it is ok to 'explore' that further leading to homosexual acts. Impressionable children dont need this sort of indoctrination and serves to confuse their sexuality.

4. It is wrong for homosexual groups to push their agenda on an entire nation including myself, in order to get everyone to condone the dangerous lifestyle which so far has killed many tens of thousands in a painful shameful manner. It is an affront to demand I call something permissible when it goes against everything in my being including my Christian Faith.

5. The Creator of us all calls homosexuality an abomination and thus, did not make his prized possession (mankind) that way for it would be against his character plus it would make him out to be at least hypocritical , and at most , a Liar.

6. No past civilization who has ever condoned homosexuality for society, has thrived and only further moral degradation resulted.

7 . Addictive homosexuality can and has been cured to which many thousands can testify , so its possible to exit the lifestyle instead of trying to round up support for something that is inherently wrong and destructive .

8 . Children of homosexual parents are very likely to enter the lifestyle which means great health dangers for them...and that can be avoided .

9 . Living for God and wanting his moral mandates offers protection and a fulfilled life . Whenever we rebel against that, it leads to eventual disaster.

10 . God has clearly stated for all of mankind to heed, that no practicing homosexuals can ever enter Heaven. Perhaps this IS the greatest reason to seek professional counselling incorporating Gods power to exit the lifestyle. Homosexuality is foundationally evil because the Players must endure an eternity of never ending regret for poor choices made during a few earthly years .

Regards.

CallMeDave: Forgive me for being blunt, but your points are almost wholly ridiculous and flawed.

1. The proven health risks which are now and STD Epidemic amongst the homosexual community. This is harming the Player as well as innocent Spouses where their Partner is bi sexual and brings an STD back to the marriage bed. Ive personally seen this alot . But just the health risks among homosexuals is very alarming

I don't buy this argument from anybody. Heterosexual sex can be equally damaging and spreads STDs all the same. There is no discrimination among STDs, if your partner has one, you can get it, end of story. And to be fair, STDs are not a byproduct of homosexuality at all, so you can't blame homosexuals for passing them onto heterosexuals either.

The homosexual agenda includes homosexual groups getting into grade schools and jr. High Schools to push their ideologies and to convince students if they feel the least bit of same sex attraction, then it is ok to 'explore' that further leading to homosexual acts. Impressionable children dont need this sort of indoctrination and serves to confuse their sexuality.

I counter with this: The homophobic agenda includes pretending homosexuality is evil and convinces children to hate themselves and that they were born with a disability, or that you should pretend not to be yourself because yourself is inherently evil. Impressionable children shouldn't be forced to believe in Christianity just because one group says so. Also, can you please show me how advocating for homosexuals to be treated equally means we are forcing kids to be gay? That's just propaganda to promote homophobia.

4. It is wrong for homosexual groups to push their agenda on an entire nation including myself, in order to get everyone to condone the dangerous lifestyle which so far has killed many tens of thousands in a painful shameful manner. It is an affront to demand I call something permissible when it goes against everything in my being including my Christian Faith.

There is so much wrong with this. First, no one is demanding that the entire nation participate in homosexuality. You, on the other hand, are demanding that everyone follow your religious agenda, despite not everyone wanting to follow your religious agenda. Practice what you preach, buddy. Also, heterosexuality and heterosexuals with STDs have killed even more people than homosexual lifestyles in history. So maybe we should ban heterosexual sex too?

No past civilization who has ever condoned homosexuality for society, has thrived and only further moral degradation resulted.

Indeed, only some of the most powerful civilizations of the past have openly embraced homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality. See: Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, Most East Asian civilizations, Native Americans, and even in the Middle East pre-monotheism. Many of these civilizations remain today. Others ruled the land for thousands of years.

Addictive homosexuality can and has been cured to which many thousands can testify , so its possible to exit the lifestyle instead of trying to round up support for something that is inherently wrong and destructive .

There is a difference between being homosexual and having a sex addiction. Big difference.

Children of homosexual parents are very likely to enter the lifestyle which means great health dangers for them...and that can be avoided .

This argument against homosexual marriage/ability to raise children is commonly thrown around without any evidence or reasoning to back it up. I've posted numerous reports and studies actually showing that homosexual couples are more involved with their children and their children tend to do as well if not better in terms of discipline and academics. I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary, and have yet to see any evidence that shows gay parents always raise gay kids...probably because homosexuality is not a choice or learned behavior.

God has clearly stated for all of mankind to heed, that no practicing homosexuals can ever enter Heaven.

There are three quotes in the Bible pertaining to homosexuality, none of which were said by Jesus. Which one says this?

I counter with this: The homophobic agenda includes pretending homosexuality is evil and convinces children to hate themselves and that they were born with a disability, or that you should pretend not to be yourself because yourself is inherently evil.

Homosexual activity is no more sinful than heterosexual sin.
However, the gay pride movement is most ceraintly evil both in its motives and methods. Just as would be a movement that promoted adultery or pornography.

There is so much wrong with this. First, no one is demanding that the entire nation participate in homosexuality.

On the contrary, it is demanding that our children be taught that homosexuality is a perfectly normal alernative. It requires for those opposed to this behavior to accept it as normal. It refuses to tolerate anyone who doesn't subscribe that homosexuality is natural or normal. Despite what you say, there are ample non-religious reasons to oppose homosexual behavior.

Impressionable children shouldn't be forced to believe in Christianity just because one group says so.

Please stop with the emotional appeals. Impressionable children should not be coerced to accept homosexual activity as normal. Not supporting the H-S agenda is not forcing Christianity on anyone. One does not have to be Christian to oppose normalizing homosexual activity.

So maybe we should ban heterosexual sex too?

Ban sex? Where did anyone speak of banning sex? Please find me anything that states such. What two homosexuals do behind closed doors is one thing. Asking for special protections under the law is another. Asking for it to be imposed upon myself and my children as normal or 'good' is another.

This argument against homosexual marriage/ability to raise children is commonly thrown around without any evidence or reasoning to back it up. I've posted numerous reports and studies actually showing that homosexual couples are more involved with their children and their children tend to do as well if not better in terms of discipline and academics. I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary, and have yet to see any evidence that shows gay parents always raise gay kids...probably because homosexuality is not a choice or learned behavior.

Did you read the links I provided a while back from a leader in the gay movement who said that you can't support gay marriage and say you are for strong families?

I think you are muddying the water saying things about making sex illegal. You are making emotional appeals, and using fallacious reasoning.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/08/07/j ... index.html

Ivellious wrote:CallMeDave: Forgive me for being blunt, but your points are almost wholly ridiculous and flawed.

1. The proven health risks which are now and STD Epidemic amongst the homosexual community. This is harming the Player as well as innocent Spouses where their Partner is bi sexual and brings an STD back to the marriage bed. Ive personally seen this alot . But just the health risks among homosexuals is very alarming

I don't buy this argument from anybody. Heterosexual sex can be equally damaging and spreads STDs all the same. There is no discrimination among STDs, if your partner has one, you can get it, end of story. And to be fair, STDs are not a byproduct of homosexuality at all, so you can't blame homosexuals for passing them onto heterosexuals either.

The homosexual agenda includes homosexual groups getting into grade schools and jr. High Schools to push their ideologies and to convince students if they feel the least bit of same sex attraction, then it is ok to 'explore' that further leading to homosexual acts. Impressionable children dont need this sort of indoctrination and serves to confuse their sexuality.

I counter with this: The homophobic agenda includes pretending homosexuality is evil and convinces children to hate themselves and that they were born with a disability, or that you should pretend not to be yourself because yourself is inherently evil. Impressionable children shouldn't be forced to believe in Christianity just because one group says so. Also, can you please show me how advocating for homosexuals to be treated equally means we are forcing kids to be gay? That's just propaganda to promote homophobia.

4. It is wrong for homosexual groups to push their agenda on an entire nation including myself, in order to get everyone to condone the dangerous lifestyle which so far has killed many tens of thousands in a painful shameful manner. It is an affront to demand I call something permissible when it goes against everything in my being including my Christian Faith.

There is so much wrong with this. First, no one is demanding that the entire nation participate in homosexuality. You, on the other hand, are demanding that everyone follow your religious agenda, despite not everyone wanting to follow your religious agenda. Practice what you preach, buddy. Also, heterosexuality and heterosexuals with STDs have killed even more people than homosexual lifestyles in history. So maybe we should ban heterosexual sex too?

No past civilization who has ever condoned homosexuality for society, has thrived and only further moral degradation resulted.

Indeed, only some of the most powerful civilizations of the past have openly embraced homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality. See: Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, Most East Asian civilizations, Native Americans, and even in the Middle East pre-monotheism. Many of these civilizations remain today. Others ruled the land for thousands of years.

Addictive homosexuality can and has been cured to which many thousands can testify , so its possible to exit the lifestyle instead of trying to round up support for something that is inherently wrong and destructive .

There is a difference between being homosexual and having a sex addiction. Big difference.

Children of homosexual parents are very likely to enter the lifestyle which means great health dangers for them...and that can be avoided .

This argument against homosexual marriage/ability to raise children is commonly thrown around without any evidence or reasoning to back it up. I've posted numerous reports and studies actually showing that homosexual couples are more involved with their children and their children tend to do as well if not better in terms of discipline and academics. I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary, and have yet to see any evidence that shows gay parents always raise gay kids...probably because homosexuality is not a choice or learned behavior.

God has clearly stated for all of mankind to heed, that no practicing homosexuals can ever enter Heaven.

There are three quotes in the Bible pertaining to homosexuality, none of which were said by Jesus. Which one says this?

I dont expect people to agree with these points when they have an apriori-commitment to our pop cultures ideologies of amorality for maximized autonomous living . In order of your responses ---

1. How come its common to bring up heterosexual casual sex whenever homosexuality is being challenged ? This thread is on HOMOsexuality. Id be pleased to address your hyjack of heteo-sexual hedonism in a fresh thread if you desire ; further, pointing out heterosexual sin lifestyles dont in some way nullify the HOMOsexual STD epidemic nor the typical health harms from the physical sex acts themselves both for male and lesbianism .

2. The term 'homophobic' is just a propaganda term in an attempt to discredit anyone/any group that takes a proactive stand for decency , morality, and integrity when it concerns lifestyle choices . The suffix 'phobic' connotates that there is a fear at stake and i have never met or heard of a person who is truly afraid to be near a homosexual , talk to such, or even brush up against such. I for one, have absolutely no fears being in proximity to a homosexual , but i do believe (and know based on scientific evidence) that the practice of homosexuality is wrong ...if for no other reason than it is a killer of thousands and harms people.
Children ARENT forced to believe in Christianity in any public school so that arguement is a non sequitur.

3. You arent aware of the true agenda behind homosexuality which is to have everyone recognize the lifestyle equal to heterosexual marriage and in general, a permissible accepted lifestyle by everyone ??? I cant think of anything that has divided and desensitized America as much as this travesty asking people to willfully suppress their moral conscience. Further, as a Christian, I do not demand everyone follow my Faith ; when i engage people by sharing my Faith I leave it up to them entirely whether they want to explore it further or not. Conversely, atheistic ideologies which we see in our culture ARE and have been used to further moral degradation thru our mass media primarily.

4. Homosexuality in past civilizations have led to a higher rate of other sexually deviant crimes. I regret if you have friends or relatives caught up in the danger of homosexuality by lets not call something which is wrong, right . Lets try and help these folks see the light.

5. Since homosexuality is inherently harmful to their bodies just as smoking or exccessive drinking is..it is therefore an addiction that people could do without and could benefit from proper treatment. And that treatment is readily available in every major city across America.

6. Common sense tells us that homosexual parents are going to be the catalyst for thier children to carry on the dangerous torch. which by the time they are adults will be plauged with much greater consequences.

7. Jesus said the ENTIRE Old Testament and future New Testament, was the Word of God . The writers of the New Testament wrote under inspiration of God so mankind could get its many messages...including what constitutes sexual immorality and perversion . The Apostle Paul clearly defined what God thinks of homosexuality and in fact, so emphatically, that he says no one who practices this perverted lifestyle has any chance of entering a safe eternity. Fortunately, as in any other sin, there is hope for the homosexual by them turning from their sin which God will help them to do ; that in conjunction with recieving the finished work and merits of Christ at calvary, will guarantee eternal life with God. So God thinks the lifestyle can be left for proper godly living.

(Is the term 'Bigot' describing me, going to arise soon ?!)

Ivellious wrote:CallMeDave: Forgive me for being blunt, but your points are almost wholly ridiculous and flawed.

1. The proven health risks which are now and STD Epidemic amongst the homosexual community. This is harming the Player as well as innocent Spouses where their Partner is bi sexual and brings an STD back to the marriage bed. Ive personally seen this alot . But just the health risks among homosexuals is very alarming

I don't buy this argument from anybody. Heterosexual sex can be equally damaging and spreads STDs all the same. There is no discrimination among STDs, if your partner has one, you can get it, end of story. And to be fair, STDs are not a byproduct of homosexuality at all, so you can't blame homosexuals for passing them onto heterosexuals either.

The homosexual agenda includes homosexual groups getting into grade schools and jr. High Schools to push their ideologies and to convince students if they feel the least bit of same sex attraction, then it is ok to 'explore' that further leading to homosexual acts. Impressionable children dont need this sort of indoctrination and serves to confuse their sexuality.

I counter with this: The homophobic agenda includes pretending homosexuality is evil and convinces children to hate themselves and that they were born with a disability, or that you should pretend not to be yourself because yourself is inherently evil. Impressionable children shouldn't be forced to believe in Christianity just because one group says so. Also, can you please show me how advocating for homosexuals to be treated equally means we are forcing kids to be gay? That's just propaganda to promote homophobia.

4. It is wrong for homosexual groups to push their agenda on an entire nation including myself, in order to get everyone to condone the dangerous lifestyle which so far has killed many tens of thousands in a painful shameful manner. It is an affront to demand I call something permissible when it goes against everything in my being including my Christian Faith.

There is so much wrong with this. First, no one is demanding that the entire nation participate in homosexuality. You, on the other hand, are demanding that everyone follow your religious agenda, despite not everyone wanting to follow your religious agenda. Practice what you preach, buddy. Also, heterosexuality and heterosexuals with STDs have killed even more people than homosexual lifestyles in history. So maybe we should ban heterosexual sex too?

No past civilization who has ever condoned homosexuality for society, has thrived and only further moral degradation resulted.

Indeed, only some of the most powerful civilizations of the past have openly embraced homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality. See: Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, Most East Asian civilizations, Native Americans, and even in the Middle East pre-monotheism. Many of these civilizations remain today. Others ruled the land for thousands of years.

Addictive homosexuality can and has been cured to which many thousands can testify , so its possible to exit the lifestyle instead of trying to round up support for something that is inherently wrong and destructive .

There is a difference between being homosexual and having a sex addiction. Big difference.

Children of homosexual parents are very likely to enter the lifestyle which means great health dangers for them...and that can be avoided .

This argument against homosexual marriage/ability to raise children is commonly thrown around without any evidence or reasoning to back it up. I've posted numerous reports and studies actually showing that homosexual couples are more involved with their children and their children tend to do as well if not better in terms of discipline and academics. I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary, and have yet to see any evidence that shows gay parents always raise gay kids...probably because homosexuality is not a choice or learned behavior.

God has clearly stated for all of mankind to heed, that no practicing homosexuals can ever enter Heaven.

There are three quotes in the Bible pertaining to homosexuality, none of which were said by Jesus. Which one says this?

I dont expect people to agree with these points when they have an apriori-commitment to our pop cultures ideologies of amorality for maximized autonomous living . In order of your responses ---

1. How come its common to bring up heterosexual casual sex whenever homosexuality is being challenged ? This thread is on HOMOsexuality. Id be pleased to address your hyjack of heteo-sexual hedonism in a fresh thread if you desire ; further, pointing out heterosexual sin lifestyles dont in some way nullify the HOMOsexual STD epidemic nor the typical health harms from the physical sex acts themselves both for male and lesbianism .

2. The term 'homophobic' is just a propaganda term in an attempt to discredit anyone/any group that takes a proactive stand for decency , morality, and integrity when it concerns lifestyle choices . The suffix 'phobic' connotates that there is a fear at stake and i have never met or heard of a person who is truly afraid to be near a homosexual , talk to such, or even brush up against such. I for one, have absolutely no fears being in proximity to a homosexual , but i do believe (and know based on scientific evidence) that the practice of homosexuality is wrong ...if for no other reason than it is a killer of thousands and harms people.
Children ARENT forced to believe in Christianity in any public school so that arguement is a non sequitur.

3. You arent aware of the true agenda behind homosexuality which is to have everyone recognize the lifestyle equal to heterosexual marriage and in general, a permissible accepted lifestyle by everyone ??? I cant think of anything that has divided and desensitized America as much as this travesty asking people to willfully suppress their moral conscience. Further, as a Christian, I do not demand everyone follow my Faith ; when i engage people by sharing my Faith I leave it up to them entirely whether they want to explore it further or not. Conversely, atheistic ideologies which we see in our culture at every turn ARE and have been foisted on us all to accept regardless of whether they are harmful ; so essentially, atheism with its godless messages are proslytizing-based because we are all expected to recieve/ condone, them.

4. Homosexuality in past civilizations have led to a higher rate of other sexually deviant crimes. I regret if you have friends or relatives caught up in the danger of homosexuality but lets not call something which is wrong and very harmful , right . Lets try and help these folks see the light by calling an ace an ace. Agree ?

5. Since homosexuality is inherently harmful to their bodies just as smoking, exccessive drinking , drugs is.. homosexuality is therefore an addiction that people could do without and could benefit from proper treatment. And that treatment is readily available in every major city across America. Did you examine the specific health harms in the site i posted ? Should these be treated with apathy ? Is apathy a noble response which shows love (?) .

6. Common sense tells us that homosexual parents are going to be the catalyst for thier children to carry on the dangerous torch., which by the time they are adults will be plauged with much greater consequences than current.

7. Jesus said the ENTIRE Old Testament and future New Testament, was the Word of God . The writers of the New Testament wrote under inspiration of God so mankind could get its many messages...including what constitutes sexual immorality and perversion . The Apostle Paul clearly defined what God thinks of homosexuality and in fact, so emphatically, that he says no one who practices this perverted lifestyle has any chance of entering a safe eternity. Fortunately, as in any other sin, there is hope for the homosexual by them turning from their sin which God will help them to do ; that in conjunction with recieving the finished work and merits of Christ at calvary, will guarantee eternal life with God. So God thinks the lifestyle can be left for proper godly living.

(Is the term 'Bigot' describing me, going to arise soon ?! lol....)