Evidence for God from Science

bruce3 wrote:Part ll https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/MRO/ ... 30307.html

Yes, Mars was flooded with massive amounts of water in the ancient past just as Peter affirms some 2,000 years ago long before such evidence could be discovered by modern scientific means! They believe water was over the moon at one time too.

A student of mine years ago after hearing me lecture on this subject went to her astronomy professor as she was majoring in this subject (her name was Celeste!), and asked him about 'water being in the universe.' He said in effect, 'Water and vapor is everywhere you go in the universe!' There was water everywhere in the universe at one time

The mass of water on Mars from the Genesis 1:2 "deep" or 'raging turbulent water mass' Heb. or flood of water as Peter describes has long since evaporated into the universe, but traces of it's primordial existence still remain to be seen by scientists.

This universe though splendid displays imperfection and is at times explosive and chaotic yet order is evident. God renovated this earth, but allowed the universe- no longer Peter's perfect beautiful cosmos of Gen.1:1 -water to evaporate over time as science affirms with Mars' past water.

Where did all the water come from in the beginning Gen.!: 1 "Heavens" in Hebrew is literally the 'up lifted waters.' There was a massive amount of water and it was this water that inundated as Peters says the cosmos which included this earth. What caused this? It could only be when Satan and his myriads of angels become demons that fell from heaven. Jesus said he "witnessed"[in the past Gk] Satan 'fall from heaven like lightening,' and we know where it strikes it destroys. Isaiah 14: 12-15 ; Ezekiel 28:12-19; Luke 10:18 ;Revelation 12:4;7-9
They found they could not defeat God and his angels so they lashed out at his creation using that water mass. When God later created man Satan or the "serpent" (Rev.12:10) was there to cause man God's creation to fall and he was successful!

The idea the Creation was evolved comes from in my view by a lack of faith. The creation make no mistake was an outright miracle!!! All of God's miracles were instant and complete like creation of man; animals; water into wine; the dead raised; all healings, etc. So why not an instant Creation the greatest grandest miracle the universe?
What God creates as we know- witness man before the flood and this earth- is subject to a 'fall' of some kind whether man or creation. Satan hates God and at every turn wishes to destroy that which came from the Lord. This is what happened, Peter says, to this earth as well as the then beautiful and well ordered Cosmos. We get our word cosmetics from this Gk word. "All things" certainly did not 'continue' from the very start of Creation!

Audie wrote:

bruce3 wrote:Part ll https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/MRO/ ... 30307.html

Yes, Mars was flooded with massive amounts of water in the ancient past just as Peter affirms some 2,000 years ago long before such evidence could be discovered by modern scientific means! They believe water was over the moon at one time too.

A student of mine years ago after hearing me lecture on this subject went to her astronomy professor as she was majoring in this subject (her name was Celeste!), and asked him about 'water being in the universe.' He said in effect, 'Water and vapor is everywhere you go in the universe!' There was water everywhere in the universe at one time

The mass of water on Mars from the Genesis 1:2 "deep" or 'raging turbulent water mass' Heb. or flood of water as Peter describes has long since evaporated into the universe, but traces of it's primordial existence still remain to be seen by scientists.

This universe though splendid displays imperfection and is at times explosive and chaotic yet order is evident. God renovated this earth, but allowed the universe- no longer Peter's perfect beautiful cosmos of Gen.1:1 -water to evaporate over time as science affirms with Mars' past water.

Where did all the water come from in the beginning Gen.!: 1 "Heavens" in Hebrew is literally the 'up lifted waters.' There was a massive amount of water and it was this water that inundated as Peters says the cosmos which included this earth. What caused this? It could only be when Satan and his myriads of angels become demons that fell from heaven. Jesus said he "witnessed"[in the past Gk] Satan 'fall from heaven like lightening,' and we know where it strikes it destroys. Isaiah 14: 12-15 ; Ezekiel 28:12-19; Luke 10:18 ;Revelation 12:4;7-9
They found they could not defeat God and his angels so they lashed out at his creation using that water mass. When God later created man Satan or the "serpent" (Rev.12:10) was there to cause man God's creation to fall and he was successful!

The idea the Creation was evolved comes from in my view by a lack of faith. The creation make no mistake was an outright miracle!!! All of God's miracles were instant and complete like creation of man; animals; water into wine; the dead raised; all healings, etc. So why not an instant Creation the greatest grandest miracle the universe?
What God creates as we know- witness man before the flood and this earth- is subject to a 'fall' of some kind whether man or creation. Satan hates God and at every turn wishes to destroy that which came from the Lord. This is what happened, Peter says, to this earth as well as the then beautiful and well ordered Cosmos. We get our word cosmetics from this Gk word. "All things" certainly did not 'continue' from the very start of Creation!

So, for clarity, God made everything instantly, but then did embedded age to make it look old?

Flood, but the he cleaned up the mess, papered over genetic bottlenecks rebuilt the ice caps with a hundred thousand years ice and generally left things so that the only way to know there was a flood is to read it in the bible?

Really?

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Audie wrote:

bruce3 wrote:Part ll https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/MRO/ ... 30307.html

Yes, Mars was flooded with massive amounts of water in the ancient past just as Peter affirms some 2,000 years ago long before such evidence could be discovered by modern scientific means! They believe water was over the moon at one time too.

A student of mine years ago after hearing me lecture on this subject went to her astronomy professor as she was majoring in this subject (her name was Celeste!), and asked him about 'water being in the universe.' He said in effect, 'Water and vapor is everywhere you go in the universe!' There was water everywhere in the universe at one time

The mass of water on Mars from the Genesis 1:2 "deep" or 'raging turbulent water mass' Heb. or flood of water as Peter describes has long since evaporated into the universe, but traces of it's primordial existence still remain to be seen by scientists.

This universe though splendid displays imperfection and is at times explosive and chaotic yet order is evident. God renovated this earth, but allowed the universe- no longer Peter's perfect beautiful cosmos of Gen.1:1 -water to evaporate over time as science affirms with Mars' past water.

Where did all the water come from in the beginning Gen.!: 1 "Heavens" in Hebrew is literally the 'up lifted waters.' There was a massive amount of water and it was this water that inundated as Peters says the cosmos which included this earth. What caused this? It could only be when Satan and his myriads of angels become demons that fell from heaven. Jesus said he "witnessed"[in the past Gk] Satan 'fall from heaven like lightening,' and we know where it strikes it destroys. Isaiah 14: 12-15 ; Ezekiel 28:12-19; Luke 10:18 ;Revelation 12:4;7-9
They found they could not defeat God and his angels so they lashed out at his creation using that water mass. When God later created man Satan or the "serpent" (Rev.12:10) was there to cause man God's creation to fall and he was successful!

The idea the Creation was evolved comes from in my view by a lack of faith. The creation make no mistake was an outright miracle!!! All of God's miracles were instant and complete like creation of man; animals; water into wine; the dead raised; all healings, etc. So why not an instant Creation the greatest grandest miracle the universe?
What God creates as we know- witness man before the flood and this earth- is subject to a 'fall' of some kind whether man or creation. Satan hates God and at every turn wishes to destroy that which came from the Lord. This is what happened, Peter says, to this earth as well as the then beautiful and well ordered Cosmos. We get our word cosmetics from this Gk word. "All things" certainly did not 'continue' from the very start of Creation!

So, for clarity, God made everything instantly, but then did embedded age to make it look old?

Flood, but the he cleaned up the mess, papered over genetic bottlenecks rebuilt the ice caps with a hundred thousand years ice and generally left things so that the only way to know there was a flood is to read it in the bible?

Really?

Audie,how can you read what he wrote and ask them kind of questions? He is just pointing out that in the beginning whenever the beginning was,the kosmos was created perfect at that time,it was not created in a chaos state and then decorated and many believe this but it makes God look weak IMO.
But also the the kosmos has not went on continually for billions of years like scoffers claim,and like you claim and the reason you claim it did is because of evolution but something catastrophic happened in which the cosmos was flooded.

Also I have links in this thread that shows the universe has massive amounts of water in it,did you overlook them?There should be water in the universe if you understand the gap theory and there is.The heavens were flooded which destroyed the world that was on the earth at the time,and look at pictures of Mars and you'll see it once had water on it,yes God cleaned up the mess to create this world on the earth in Genesis 1:6-8.

RickD wrote:Jeremiah 4 is about Judah. Not some ancient prehistoric world. Anyone who reads Jeremiah 4, can see its context.

And in Jeremiah 4:23, it says , "I behold..."

It means "to see". As in a vision. Jeremiah was a prophet. Prophets see visions of the future.

ACB,

Just read the entire chapter of Jeremiah 4, from the beginning, and you can see that it's talking about Judah. Not the entire earth at some imaginary time in the past.

Jeremiah 4:1-31

Jeremiah 4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Judah Threatened with Invasion
4 “If you will return, O Israel,” declares the Lord,
“Then you should return to Me.
And if you will put away your detested things from My presence,
And will not waver,
2 And you will swear, ‘As the Lord lives,’
In truth, in justice and in righteousness;
Then the nations will bless themselves in Him,
And in Him they will glory.”
3 For thus says the Lord to the men of Judah and to Jerusalem,

“[a]Break up your fallow ground,
And do not sow among thorns.
4 “Circumcise yourselves to the Lord
And remove the foreskins of your heart,
Men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem,
Or else My wrath will go forth like fire
And burn with none to quench it,
Because of the evil of your deeds.”
5 Declare in Judah and proclaim in Jerusalem, and say,
“Blow the trumpet in the land;
Cry aloud and say,
‘Assemble yourselves, and let us go
Into the fortified cities.’
6 “Lift up a standard toward Zion!
Seek refuge, do not stand still,
For I am bringing evil from the north,
And great destruction.
7 “A lion has gone up from his thicket,
And a destroyer of nations has set out;
He has gone out from his place
To make your land a waste.
Your cities will be ruins
Without inhabitant.
8 “For this, put on sackcloth,
Lament and wail;
For the fierce anger of the Lord
Has not turned back from us.”
9 “It shall come about in that day,” declares the Lord, “that the heart of the king and the heart of the princes will fail; and the priests will be appalled and the prophets will be astounded.”

10 Then I said, “Ah, Lord God! Surely You have utterly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, ‘You will have peace’; whereas a sword touches the [c]throat.”

11 In that time it will be said to this people and to Jerusalem, “A scorching wind from the bare heights in the wilderness in the direction of the daughter of My people—not to winnow and not to cleanse, 12 a wind too strong for [d]this—will come [e]at My command; now I will also pronounce judgments against them.

13 “Behold, he goes up like clouds,
And his chariots like the whirlwind;
His horses are swifter than eagles.
Woe to us, for we are ruined!”
14 Wash your heart from evil, O Jerusalem,
That you may be saved.
How long will your wicked thoughts
Lodge within you?
15 For a voice declares from Dan,
And proclaims wickedness from Mount Ephraim.
16 “Report it to the nations, now!
Proclaim over Jerusalem,
‘Besiegers come from a far country,
And lift their voices against the cities of Judah.
17 ‘Like watchmen of a field they are against her round about,
Because she has rebelled against Me,’ declares the Lord.
18 “Your ways and your deeds
Have [f]brought these things to you.
This is your evil. How bitter!
How it has touched your heart!”
Lament over Judah’s Devastation
19 My [g]soul, my [h]soul! I am in anguish! Oh, my heart!
My heart is pounding in me;
I cannot be silent,
Because [j]you have heard, O my soul,
The sound of the trumpet,
The alarm of war.
20 Disaster on disaster is proclaimed,
For the whole land is devastated;
Suddenly my tents are devastated,
My curtains in an instant.
21 How long must I see the standard
And hear the sound of the trumpet?
22 “For My people are foolish,
They know Me not;
They are stupid children
And have no understanding.
They are shrewd to do evil,
But to do good they do not know.”
23 I looked on the earth, and behold, it was [k] formless and void;
And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking,
And all the hills [l]moved to and fro.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no man,
And all the birds of the heavens had fled.
26 I looked, and behold, [m]the fruitful land was a wilderness,
And all its cities were pulled down
Before the Lord, before His fierce anger.
27 For thus says the Lord,
“The whole land shall be a desolation,
Yet I will not execute a complete destruction.
28 “For this the earth shall mourn
And the heavens above be dark,
Because I have spoken, I have purposed,
And I will not [n]change My mind, nor will I turn from it.”
29 At the sound of the horseman and bowman every city flees;
They go into the thickets and climb among the rocks;
Every city is forsaken,
And no man dwells in them.
30 And you, O desolate one, what will you do?
Although you dress in scarlet,
Although you decorate yourself with ornaments of gold,
Although you enlarge your eyes with paint,
In vain you make yourself beautiful.
Your [o]lovers despise you;
They seek your life.
31 For I heard a [p]cry as of a woman in labor,
The anguish as of one giving birth to her first child,
The [q]cry of the daughter of Zion gasping for breath,
Stretching out her [r]hands, saying,
“Ah, woe is me, for I faint before murderers.”

abelcainsbrother wrote:J Vernon McGee taught and believed in the Gap theory eventhough I don't think he got into the science of it.

NobodySpecial wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:J Vernon McGee taught and believed in the Gap theory eventhough I don't think he got into the science of it.

Although he subscribed to the Gap theory his focus primarily against evolutionists is the fact that regardless of the time that the earth/universe has been here, if you go back far enough you eventually have to explain how something came from nothing. His tactic was not so much the focus on using Gap theory as a weapon, but using it as a means to agree with the evolutionist before taking the argument further and asking "what came before that?" That's where evolutionist theory fails because it can't explain why something is here as opposed to nothing.

In regards to whether Gap theory, old earth or young earth is the actual case - those all seem like minor details when discussed among Christians.

"In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things - charity" - St. Augustine