I didn't? I thought the answer of basically, "There already exists law making murder illegal." was answer in itself. Maybe you should be more specific in your question?Kurieuo wrote:You didn't answer my question.BavarianWheels wrote:There is already law against murder. Why would you want to push something that already exists?Kurieuo wrote:Do you think that we should push for laws against murder?
I *think I understand this, but then again I'm probably too stupid. Uh...ya. I'll say yes. [/sarcasm]Kurieuo wrote:Perhaps I expected too much information to be understood re: moral argument for God's existence.
The moral argument is essentially built upon the fact that all people recognise that some some things are right, and some things are wrong. When we complain about being treated unfairly, or condemn those who do wrong as should have "knowing better", we appeal to a higher law built upon moral values we believe everyone should be aware to.
Without God, this "higher law" is only a mirage and morality is just a matter of personal taste relative to a person or group of people. Yet, because no one except a psychopath can live without a conscience, there thus appears to be a Moral Law that transcends humanity. This Moral Law, Christians believe (or ought to believe), comes from God.
Very good. Now if only "we" would apply this to everything we hold as "truth". This is a good statement I will have to remember for another topic.Kurieuo wrote:Your saying morals are based on belief in a Creator God is in fact backwards. Your belief in right and wrong are ultimately derived from and therefore founded upon God's righteous nature like everyone else. Only, our vision can get clouded and the values God initially set in our heart can become more and more clouded particularly through the external influences of others.
You can. I think we've established this a few times here.Kurieuo wrote:However, given your moral sense that every human life is created equal and based on your acceptance of Scripture which says we humans should not murder each other for we are created in God's image, I should be able to simply appeal to this.
Me off what hook? Are you suggesting I'm one of those Dr's taking part in abortion or that by some miracle I, as a male, became pregnant and aborted the fetus, or that one or more of my family, a friend, or someone I just met has had an abortion to which I encouraged the act?Kurieuo wrote:However, you seem to then throw away such standards to embrace a you-say/they-say relativistic morality to try and let yourself off the hook.
Not two-faced or confused at all. I do believe in God and under God everyone is bound to this greater moral law. However, we are not "under God" literally in this country (U.S. or Australia...I know you live there I just figured you understood what I meant. I suppose I'll be more explicit from now on.) The country (the U.S.) may have started off with a stronger lean on God to base its law and workings, but today that lean has lessened (in the U.S.) and in fact is being pushed aside to say that we (the U.S. as a country) are not a country under God (the Christian God as probably assumed in the wording of early U.S. documentation), but under ourselves where all religions, all beliefs, whether they invoke God, god, gods or no god is of no consequence, but we (the U.S.) will govern ourselves by vote of the majority.Kurieuo wrote:This is either two-faced or confused. Either you believe in God and everyone is bound to a greater moral law, or God does not exist and to each person their own morality.
To a believer in God.Kurieuo wrote:Just look at your following question to me.In this country, do you mean Australia?Bav wrote:So, how are we basing law in this country and by whose morals? If it be based on Godly morals, then abortion can be deemed illegal solely on morality reasons. If it is based on what society deems moral, then the legality of abortion is up in the air.
Real "good", that is, some moral actions being really right making others really wrong, can only be explained by God's existence.
No. My perspective is different. It makes no difference whether abortion is legal or not. The true fight for life is at the personal level, not at the civic level. In my opinion, Pilate was right! He had no law that said Jesus had done anything wrong. He rightly washed his hands of the blood of Jesus, however after washing his hands, instead of releasing Jesus and putting the responsibility back onto the chief priests, HE had Jesus flogged and crucified under his authority. Up to that point, Pilate was right. His law found no wrong that Jesus be put to death. Had he released Jesus and forced the chief priests to take matters into their own hands, we'd have a different view of Pilate today.Kurieuo wrote:Do you believe in a morality that transcends humanity Bav? If so, then you should be pushing what you know to be true and trying to be a light to the world and correct the vision of others. To wash your hands of the matter is rather Pilate-ish.
I like to dance. It's fun. The fact remains. The real fight is not in the legality or illegality of abortion. The real fight is in prevention. If abortion is murder, then law exists already stating so. It's up to society and what IT decides is moral as to the legality of it. As Christians, our fight is not whether it is civilly legal or not, but to prevent such tragedy from occuring going to the source...if it be our calling.Kurieuo wrote:Have a read of the following article: Punishing Illegal Abortion: If abortion is murder, should aborting women be tried as murderers?
Perhaps you should read my previous responses rather than trying to dance in circles.
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