Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 3:20 am https://video.foxnews.com/v/6252794642001/

Per a federal judge in the Southern District of New York and Fox News's own lawyers.
https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/91774712 ... ox-s-lawye

Just read U.S. District Judge Mary Kay Vyskocil's opinion, leaning heavily on the arguments of Fox's lawyers: The "'general tenor' of the show should then inform a viewer that [Carlson] is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' "
She wrote: "Fox persuasively argues, that given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer 'arrive(s) with an appropriate amount of skepticism' about the statement he makes."
Vyskocil, an appointee of President Trump's, added, "Whether the Court frames Mr. Carlson's statements as 'exaggeration,' 'non-literal commentary,' or simply bloviating for his audience, the conclusion remains the same — the statements are not actionable."

Here is the CDC link regarding the question Carlson poses.
Selected Adverse Events Reported after COVID-19 Vaccination
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... vents.html

Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination
CDC uses the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) to closely monitor reports of death following COVID-19 vaccination.

FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS.
Reports to VAERS of death following vaccination do not necessarily mean the vaccine caused the death.
CDC follows up on any report of death to request additional information to learn more about what occurred and to determine whether the death was a result of the vaccine or was unrelated.
CDC, FDA, and other federal agencies will continue to monitor the safety of COVID-19 vaccines.
Over 245 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through May 3, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 4,178 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths. Get the latest safety information on the J&J/Janssen vaccine. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events, including deaths, reported to VAERS.

As the CDC article notes, reports of death are tracked by VAERS and the CDC follows up on all reports of death to determine if there is a potential causal relationship.
A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines.

The example of the J&J vaccine demonstrates that the CDC and FDA are monitoring these numbers very closely and taking appropriate action. When the data for the J&J vaccine indicated a potential "plausible" causal relationship with a rare occurrence of blood clots, J&J vaccines were paused while the CDC and FDA looked more closely at the data.
Officials from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Food and Drug Administration have lifted the pause on the J&J vaccine. They determined that the risks of catching COVID-19 outweigh the risks of some very rare but serious side effects.

It is interesting to note that there have been pauses or delays out of an abundance of caution in the distribution of the single-shot adenovirus vaccines (J&J and AstraZeneca).
On the other hand, there has been no need for any pause for either of the two-shot mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna).

Did you watch the video? If you have something specific that he said, that you disagree with, let’s talk about it. Posting a link from last year that doesn’t address what Carlson said, doesn’t do any good.

The cdc blamed all deaths on Covid, if the patient had Covid, regardless of any other issues that may have caused the death. But the cdc blames none of the deaths on the vaccine that the people received before they died.

And you don’t see an issue with the inconsistency?

RickD wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 6:59 am Did you watch the video? If you have something specific that he said, that you disagree with, let’s talk about it. Posting a link from last year that doesn’t address what Carlson said, doesn’t do any good.

Actually it does do some good, because the integrity and reliability of sources is very important in determining the integrity and reliability of the information given by those sources.
And the courts and Fox News lawyers have identified Carlson as a chronic source of misinformation.
As Fox's own lawyers point out
"given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer 'arrive(s) with an appropriate amount of skepticism' about the statement he makes.

Yes I did watch the video, and Carlson was very clever in the words he used.
He repeatedly referred to deaths after Covid vaccines.

But I did not see any real data about the real issue.
How many deaths were caused by Covid vaccines.
And Carlson admits he doesn't know and (wisely) refuses to speculate on that number.

As the CDC article I posted notes

FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after CVID-19 vaccination to VAERS.
Reports to VAERS of death following vaccination do not necessarily mean the vaccine caused the death.

So if Carlson were interested in spreading accurate information instead of misinformation, he would have focused on the relevant issue... what the data shows after...
"CDC follows up on any report of death to request additional information to learn more about what occurred and to determine whether the death was a result of the vaccine or was unrelated."
But the actual data regarding causal relationships between vaccines and deaths after the vaccines doesn't support the false narrative that Carlson is perpetuating.

And as I noted above, the J&J pause is hard evidence that the FDA and CDC are tracking any potential cause/effect relationship between the covid vaccines and any death that might have occurred after the vaccine. And they have taken action on any 'plausible' causal relationship.

But Carlson has no interest in facts and truth.
As U.S. District Judge Mary Kay Vyskocil (a Trump appointee) tells us...
Carlson's statements are " 'exaggeration,' 'non-literal commentary,' or simply bloviating for his audience"

DBowling wrote:
Yes I did watch the video, and Carlson was very clever in the words he used.
He repeatedly referred to deaths after Covid vaccines.

But I did not see any real data about the real issue.
How many deaths were caused by Covid vaccines.
And Carlson admits he doesn't know and (wisely) refuses to speculate on that number.

You didn’t see any real data about how many deaths were caused BY vaccines, BECAUSE THERE IS NO DATA! The CDC investigates itself and finds no issues.

People die from issues that can be caused by vaccines, yet there’s no “proof” that the vaccines caused the death, even though the vaccines would be the most probable cause. So guess what? It wasn’t a vaccine death. Nothing would kill the “safe and effective” narrative more than deaths caused by the vaccine.

RickD wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 9:41 am

DBowling wrote:
Yes I did watch the video, and Carlson was very clever in the words he used.
He repeatedly referred to deaths after Covid vaccines.

But I did not see any real data about the real issue.
How many deaths were caused by Covid vaccines.
And Carlson admits he doesn't know and (wisely) refuses to speculate on that number.

You didn’t see any real data about how many deaths were caused BY vaccines, BECAUSE THERE IS NO DATA! The CDC investigates itself and finds no issues.

The J&J situation demonstrates that you are simply wrong on this.

The CDC VAERS process identified an extremely rare 1 in a million issue and the CDC and FDA took action and put a pause on the J&J vaccine over a plausible cause/effect relationship that is actually less lethal than doing nothing and contracting the Covid-19 virus.

So reality shows that the CDC/VAERS process is working well enough to catch a 1 in a million event.
And reality also shows that the CDC and FDA are willing and able to take action on a 1 in a million event.

Well, this sort of question also comes to my mind but I do not focus on them because I have to stay an alive and healthful person. People who believe in such negative things always face hard situations in life. I am glad that most of the people responded greatly to this post.

Nellie11 wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 4:23 am Well, this sort of question also comes to my mind but I do not focus on them because I have to stay an alive and healthful person. People who believe in such negative things always face hard situations in life. I am glad that most of the people responded greatly to this post.

I thank you for your thoughtful and informative post. I’m not sure if we would’ve been able to continue this discussion, without the information you have provided.

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 2:46 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 9:41 am

DBowling wrote:
Yes I did watch the video, and Carlson was very clever in the words he used.
He repeatedly referred to deaths after Covid vaccines.

But I did not see any real data about the real issue.
How many deaths were caused by Covid vaccines.
And Carlson admits he doesn't know and (wisely) refuses to speculate on that number.

You didn’t see any real data about how many deaths were caused BY vaccines, BECAUSE THERE IS NO DATA! The CDC investigates itself and finds no issues.

The J&J situation demonstrates that you are simply wrong on this.

The CDC VAERS process identified an extremely rare 1 in a million issue and the CDC and FDA took action and put a pause on the J&J vaccine over a plausible cause/effect relationship that is actually less lethal than doing nothing and contracting the Covid-19 virus.

So reality shows that the CDC/VAERS process is working well enough to catch a 1 in a million event.
And reality also shows that the CDC and FDA are willing and able to take action on a 1 in a million event.

Nice try, but no.

CDC: “Let’s take ‘accountability’ for a 1 in a million issue, so it looks like we’re being unbiased.”



Again, think about this: the cdc offers no distinction between those who died with COVID 19, and those who died from COVID 19. And find a causal relationship between COVID 19, and all that died, who had COVID 19.

But they make a strong distinction between those who died after receiving a COVID vaccine, and the zero people they have found who died caused by the COVID vaccines.

Where is your God given discernment?

RickD wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 5:32 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 2:46 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 9:41 am BECAUSE THERE IS NO DATA! The CDC investigates itself and finds no issues.

The J&J situation demonstrates that you are simply wrong on this.

The CDC VAERS process identified an extremely rare 1 in a million issue and the CDC and FDA took action and put a pause on the J&J vaccine over a plausible cause/effect relationship that is actually less lethal than doing nothing and contracting the Covid-19 virus.

So reality shows that the CDC/VAERS process is working well enough to catch a 1 in a million event.
And reality also shows that the CDC and FDA are willing and able to take action on a 1 in a million event.

Nice try, but no.

CDC: “Let’s take ‘accountability’ for a 1 in a million issue, so it looks like we’re being unbiased.”

So, based on the J&J situation which of the following three statements are factually accurate and which one is factually inaccurate?
1. The CDC investigates itself and finds no issues.
2. So reality shows that the CDC/VAERS process is working well enough to catch a 1 in a million event.
3. And reality also shows that the CDC and FDA are willing and able to take action on a 1 in a million event.

In your post above you appear to acknowledge that the CDC discovered and took accountability for a 1 in a million issue, which directly contradicts your earlier assertion that...
"The CDC investigates itself and finds no issues."

DBowling wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 7:03 am

RickD wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 5:32 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 2:46 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 9:41 am BECAUSE THERE IS NO DATA! The CDC investigates itself and finds no issues.

The J&J situation demonstrates that you are simply wrong on this.

The CDC VAERS process identified an extremely rare 1 in a million issue and the CDC and FDA took action and put a pause on the J&J vaccine over a plausible cause/effect relationship that is actually less lethal than doing nothing and contracting the Covid-19 virus.

So reality shows that the CDC/VAERS process is working well enough to catch a 1 in a million event.
And reality also shows that the CDC and FDA are willing and able to take action on a 1 in a million event.

Nice try, but no.

CDC: “Let’s take ‘accountability’ for a 1 in a million issue, so it looks like we’re being unbiased.”

So, based on the J&J situation which of the following three statements are factually accurate and which one is factually inaccurate?
1. The CDC investigates itself and finds no issues.
2. So reality shows that the CDC/VAERS process is working well enough to catch a 1 in a million event.
3. And reality also shows that the CDC and FDA are willing and able to take action on a 1 in a million event.

In your post above you appear to acknowledge that the CDC discovered and took accountability for a 1 in a million issue, which directly contradicts your earlier assertion that...
"The CDC investigates itself and finds no issues."

Context is key. When I said no issues, I was referring to the CDC’s investigation of itself, which found no deaths due to the Covid vaccines.

You can’t be so naive to believe that none of the people who died after receiving the Covid vaccines died from the vaccine.

Good News
New guidance from the CDC.

When You’ve Been Fully Vaccinated
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... nated.html

- If you are fully vaccinated, you can resume activities that you did prior to the pandemic.
- Fully vaccinated people can resume activities without wearing a mask or physically distancing, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules, and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance.
- If you haven’t been vaccinated yet, find a vaccine.

The US hasn't reached Israel's level of herd immunity yet, but enough US citizens have been vaccinated that the CDC has been able to loosen recommendations for those who are fully vaccinated.

More real life evidence that vaccinations are saving lives and enabling the early steps of 'returning to normal' here in the US.

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:12 pm Good News
New guidance from the CDC.

When You’ve Been Fully Vaccinated
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... nated.html

- If you are fully vaccinated, you can resume activities that you did prior to the pandemic.
- Fully vaccinated people can resume activities without wearing a mask or physically distancing, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules, and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance.
- If you haven’t been vaccinated yet, find a vaccine.

The US hasn't reached Israel's level of herd immunity yet, but enough US citizens have been vaccinated that the CDC has been able to loosen recommendations for those who are fully vaccinated.

More real life evidence that vaccinations are saving lives and enabling the early steps of 'returning to normal' here in the US.

And as usual, people with natural immunity after fighting off COVID-19, aren’t even figured into the equation.

You can tell the cdc that I’ve been back to all of my pre-pandemic activities. I’m not living in fear of a virus that my immune system handled without my even knowing I had it.

RickD wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 2:26 pm

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:12 pm Good News
New guidance from the CDC.

When You’ve Been Fully Vaccinated
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... nated.html

- If you are fully vaccinated, you can resume activities that you did prior to the pandemic.
- Fully vaccinated people can resume activities without wearing a mask or physically distancing, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules, and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance.
- If you haven’t been vaccinated yet, find a vaccine.

The US hasn't reached Israel's level of herd immunity yet, but enough US citizens have been vaccinated that the CDC has been able to loosen recommendations for those who are fully vaccinated.

More real life evidence that vaccinations are saving lives and enabling the early steps of 'returning to normal' here in the US.

And as usual, people with natural immunity after fighting off COVID-19, aren’t even figured into the equation.

You can tell the cdc that I’ve been back to all of my pre-pandemic activities. I’m not living in fear of a virus that my immune system handled without my even knowing I had it.

Whatever floats your boat...
I'm sure the cdc is already well aware that there are people like you out there.

But... I do care about saving human lives.
I do support aggressively fighting a pandemic that has killed over half a million people in the US and over 3 million people world wide.
And in real life, the Israel vaccination model is a much more humane model to follow than the the tragedy that we see playing out in India.

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 3:16 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 2:26 pm

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:12 pm Good News
New guidance from the CDC.

When You’ve Been Fully Vaccinated
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... nated.html

- If you are fully vaccinated, you can resume activities that you did prior to the pandemic.
- Fully vaccinated people can resume activities without wearing a mask or physically distancing, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules, and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance.
- If you haven’t been vaccinated yet, find a vaccine.

The US hasn't reached Israel's level of herd immunity yet, but enough US citizens have been vaccinated that the CDC has been able to loosen recommendations for those who are fully vaccinated.

More real life evidence that vaccinations are saving lives and enabling the early steps of 'returning to normal' here in the US.

And as usual, people with natural immunity after fighting off COVID-19, aren’t even figured into the equation.

You can tell the cdc that I’ve been back to all of my pre-pandemic activities. I’m not living in fear of a virus that my immune system handled without my even knowing I had it.

Whatever floats your boat...
I'm sure the cdc is already well aware that there are people like you out there.

But... I do care about saving human lives.
I do support aggressively fighting a pandemic that has killed over half a million people in the US and over 3 million people world wide.
And in real life, the Israel vaccination model is a much more humane model to follow than the the tragedy that we see playing out in India.

I’m glad you care about saving lives. Really. I get it. But why isn’t the fact that people have recovered taken into account? It’s a serious question for you. Why do you think it’s being ignored?

RickD wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 3:30 pm

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 3:16 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 2:26 pm

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:12 pm Good News
New guidance from the CDC.

When You’ve Been Fully Vaccinated
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... nated.html

- If you are fully vaccinated, you can resume activities that you did prior to the pandemic.
- Fully vaccinated people can resume activities without wearing a mask or physically distancing, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules, and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance.
- If you haven’t been vaccinated yet, find a vaccine.

The US hasn't reached Israel's level of herd immunity yet, but enough US citizens have been vaccinated that the CDC has been able to loosen recommendations for those who are fully vaccinated.

More real life evidence that vaccinations are saving lives and enabling the early steps of 'returning to normal' here in the US.

And as usual, people with natural immunity after fighting off COVID-19, aren’t even figured into the equation.

You can tell the cdc that I’ve been back to all of my pre-pandemic activities. I’m not living in fear of a virus that my immune system handled without my even knowing I had it.

Whatever floats your boat...
I'm sure the cdc is already well aware that there are people like you out there.

But... I do care about saving human lives.
I do support aggressively fighting a pandemic that has killed over half a million people in the US and over 3 million people world wide.
And in real life, the Israel vaccination model is a much more humane model to follow than the the tragedy that we see playing out in India.

I’m glad you care about saving lives. Really. I get it. But why isn’t the fact that people have recovered taken into account? It’s a serious question for you. Why do you think it’s being ignored?

I don't think its being ignored, the cdc is still investigating the level of immunity and the duration of immunity that those who have recovered have.

The latest information that I've seen is that if a person has recovered from covid, then one shot should bring them to the same level of immunity that two shots from a mRNA vaccine provides to a person without any antibodies.

This is probably why Trump (who is definitely not a vaccine advocate) chose to get vaccinated even after he had recovered from covid.

But the takeaway here is that the announcement by the cdc today is excellent news!!
It shows that the vaccination program in the US is working.
And this is the first step in getting the US population as a whole 'back to normal' safely.

That is good news for everyone.