Evidence for God from Science

Grace to all, not much time, I have other priorities that demand my attention. I also today recieved a new book by LDS Professor/Scholar Robert L. Millet of BYU entitled : A Different Jesus ?, The Christ Of The Latter Day Saints, Forward/Afterward By Evangelical Christian Richard J. Mouw, Eerdmans Publishing Co.226 pages. Back cover Positive endorsments by Craig Blomberg/Denver Seminary, David Neff editor of Christianity Today, Craig Hazen/Biola, Gregory Johnson/Former LDS.Baptist Minister, Director Of Standing Together Ministries, David Paulsen, BYU, Truman Madsen,BYU, Robert J.Matthews, BYU. I will be taking an intense reading of this book.
bzzt, thank you for your comments, by giving you web sites to go to and search is a learning experience and shows me sincerity. Tanyan is my name I go by in my posts so please understand that is another way of showing "RESPECT". I am still contemplating on sharing, perhaps sometime in the near future.
For ochotseat, Yes its always this web site or that web site, just as it is did you know about the evils of Mormonism in this book or that book, this paper or that paper, this tract or that tract, this Video/DVD or that Video/DVD, this Cassette Tape/CD or that Cassete Tape/CD.
Yes I have invited them to one of our Temples : Open Houses/Visitors Centers, One can Go in the front part of the Temple [Inside]. Thank you for asking.
The Holy Ghost/Spirit has led me well into Spiritual Truth, thank you. As I stated earlier I will try if time permits to share in the near future my beliefs, but now my attention is on my WorshipOf My Heavenly Father, reading scripture and my new book will be taking up time. So it may be awhile before I get back.
As to my reminders of why I am not a Fundamentalist Evangelical Christian and what is wrong with them , I perhaps should have clarified that [There are some Fine one's out there in my opinion] I am reffering to the Pharisseic type I have encountered over the years. May Grace Rain on you this Night/Day, In His Debt [JESUS}, TANYAN.

Tanyan wrote: For ochotseat, Yes its always this web site or that web site, just as it is did you know about the evils of Mormonism in this book or that book, this paper or that paper, this tract or that tract, this Video/DVD or that Video/DVD, this Cassette Tape/CD or that Cassete Tape/CD.
Yes I have invited them to one of our Temples : Open Houses/Visitors Centers, One can Go in the front part of the Temple [Inside]. Thank you for asking..

But Mormon temples don't allow non-members to enter unless they have a special pass. Sounds a little cultish to me.

Tanyan wrote: As to my reminders of why I am not a Fundamentalist Evangelical Christian and what is wrong with them , I perhaps should have clarified that [There are some Fine one's out there in my opinion] I am reffering to the Pharisseic type I have encountered over the years. May Grace Rain on you this Night/Day, In His Debt [JESUS}, TANYAN.

The "Pharisee types" are there to quell any blasphemous rhetoric.

Agape greetings, had a few brief moments to check my e-mail. That "Special Pass" is called a "Temple Recomend" which allows anyone who is Living in accordance to THE LORD OF LIFE'S Standards as a Member of the LDS Faith to be Taught Higher Teachings and recieve an Endowment [A Gift] . It is Sacred not Secret to anyone who joins the LORD OF LIFE'S Church and is worthy to Enter. As to secrecy, then the Early Christians were cultish, for they did and Taught in secret so as the world would not trample and ridicule there Teachings. The Pharisee type's are there to follow another spirit [ Not Jesus/Holy Ghost]. Anyway must go thanks again for reminding me why I am not a "BIFF" Christian". In His Debt, [Jesus], Tanyan.

I must agree, the Pharisee types are not the ones we want to imitate. Jesus certainly never had good things to say about them.

But Tanyan, the secrecy thing is very strange. Surely in the days of the early church it's understandable, but they were being murdered for their faith then. That's not at all the case now, so why the secrecy? Is it like the free masons, with a secret handshake too That's a bit of humor, don't be offended by it.

Physical/Verbal Murder still happens to this day. Not much has changed. Thanks for your thoughts however. Peace to you. In His Debt [JESUS], Tanyan.

Physical/Verbal Murder still happens to this day. Not much has changed.

That's true but most of the murders and such aren't because of what church we're in. Now its mostly about money or just insane rage. So things have changed, mostly, just not for the better.

Tell that to Edward Decker. Peace.

CountryBoy wrote:I must agree, the Pharisee types are not the ones we want to imitate. Jesus certainly never had good things to say about them..

You don't understand. To him, fundamentalist Christians are Pharisees.

CountryBoy wrote: But Tanyan, the secrecy thing is very strange. Surely in the days of the early church it's understandable, but they were being murdered for their faith then. That's not at all the case now, so why the secrecy? Is it like the free masons, with a secret handshake too That's a bit of humor, don't be offended by it..

That's because the LDS "Church" is probably a cult. Here's why:

http://www.basicchristian.org/Christian_vs_Mormon.pdf

The Mormon church is a cult With all of the Cult trappings including
secret symbols, secret handshakes, secret meanings, even including a
required wearing of secret Underwear.
2 Corinthians 4:2 But have renounced the hidden (secret)
things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the
word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth
commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight
of God.

It is a Cult with hierarchy, each person considers themselves higher
than the next person, until eventually they consider themselves gods. This
evolving into a god is actually a part of the false religion of evolution, you
cannot conjure up within yourself the ability of everlasting life.

The Mormon church, engages in spirit worship of the dead, and many
similar very disturbing practices.

Here's some information about the LDS Church for those who are curious:

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/mormon.htm

1. Source of Authority= Mormonism teaches that the canon of Scripture was not closed when the Bible was completed. They have three sources in addition to the Bible, all of which they believe contain God's revelations -- the Book of Mormon 2 (changed in more than 4,000 places since 1830), Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. However, Mormons follow the teachings of these three books even when they contradict the Bible. For example, Mormonism teaches that the Bible is the Word of God "as far as it is translated correctly." Then whenever a Mormon belief contradicts Scripture, the Mormons say that particular part of Scripture is translated incorrectly, and that the correct translation is in one of the Mormon scriptures (The Maze of Mormonism, p. 131). Thereby, the Bible is rejected as the infallible Word of God.

2. Trinity= Mormonism teaches polytheism (versus monotheism taught in the Bible), believing that the universe is inhabited by many gods who produce spirit children.

3. God= In Mormon theology, the god of our planet is believed to have once been a man on another planet, who through self-effort and the help of his own father-god, was appointed by a counsel of gods in the heavens to his high position as the god of planet Earth, and now has a physical, resurrected, glorified body. Mormonism teaches that through the atonement of Christ and by their good deeds and "holy" living, men can one day become gods, and with their multiplicity of "goddess wives," populate their own planets.

4. Christ= Mormonism acknowledges the divinity of Christ, but as noted above, Mormon doctrine on what constitutes divinity falls seriously short of the Biblical standard. Mormonism teaches that Jesus, Lucifer, and all the demons, as well as all mankind, are actually all spirit brothers and sisters, born in the spirit world as spirit babies to our man-god Heavenly Father and his goddess wives. Mormon leaders have consistently taught that God the Father ("Adam-god") had sexual relations on earth with Mary (his own spirit daughter), to produce the physical body of Jesus. Early Mormon apostles also asserted that Christ was a polygamist, and that His wives included Mary and Martha (the sisters of Lazarus) and Mary Magdalene.

5. Holy Spirit= In Mormonism, a distinction is drawn between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit.

6. Sin= Concerning the transmission of sin to Adam's posterity, Mormons take a negative position -- they believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression. Having rejected the doctrine of the imputation of the guilt of sin, Latter-Day Saints likewise repudiate the transmission of inherent corruption or original sin.

7. Salvation= Mormon theology teaches that the atonement of Christ was essential to our salvation and eternal life with God, but that it is not sufficient. Christ's shed blood on the cross provides for universal resurrection of all people, but does not pay for personal sins; according to Mormonism, only Christ's blood shed in the Garden of Gethsemane atones for personal sin. Besides faith in Christ, complete and permanent repentance of all sin as well as many good works are required. Mormonism also teaches that one must be baptized in water to be saved (baptismal regeneration), and that salvation will also be available in the next world for those "missing-out" in this one. Therefore, Mormons avidly pursue genealogy and practice baptism for the dead.

8. Heaven and Hell= Mormonism teaches that there are three degrees of glory: Celestial (for good Mormons able to cease sinning in this lifetime), Terrestrial (for good people who do not comply with all the teachings of Mormonism), and Telestial (for those who have lived unclean earthly lives). Mormonism teaches that there is a hell, but only for the "sons of perdition," a very small number of souls that cannot be redeemed. According to Mormonism, then, the vast majority of mankind will be "saved," though it should be obvious that no one will make it to the Celestial Kingdom. [Blacks used to be totally out of the equation: "Black people are black because of their misdeeds in the pre-existence" (Three Degrees of Glory, LDS Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, p. 21); "The Negro is an unfortunate man. He has been given a black skin. But that is nothing compared with that greater handicap. He is not permitted to receive the priesthood and the ordinances of the temple, necessary to prepare men and women to enter into and enjoy a fullness of glory in the Celestial Kingdom" (Elder George E. Richards). In 1978, however, the Mormon Church announced that God had lifted his curse from the African race.]

9. Temple Rituals= A typical temple ceremony would take place as follows: "The ritual began in a small cubicle where we had to strip completely. We then put on 'the shield,' a poncho with a hole for the head, but open on the sides (similar to a hospital gown). We went through a series of 'washings and anointings,' as various parts of our bodies were touched by elderly temple workers who mumbled appropriate incantations over them. Our Mormon underwear, 'the garments,' are said to have powers to protect us from 'the evil one.' It had occult markings, which were so 'sacred' that we were instructed to burn them when the garments wore out. The endowment ceremony mocked all doctrines held to by Biblical Christianity, and Christian pastors were portrayed as servants of Satan. We had to swear many blood oaths, promising we would forfeit our lives if we weren't faithful, or if we revealed any of the secrets revealed to us in the temple ceremonies. We were made to pretend by grotesque gestures to cut our throats, chests, and abdomens, indicating how we would lose our lives. We were never told who would kill us! The inference was, and history testifies to, that it would be the Mormon priesthood." (Testimony of a former Mormon.) [Note: The blood oaths and portrayal of Christian pastors were removed in April of 1990, despite the fact that the ordinance was purported to have been given originally by a revelation and was never to be changed.]

10. More Citations Detailing and Amplifying Mormon Doctrine. All of the statements below are from Mormon authors in good standing with the Mormon Church:

The true gospel was lost from the earth. Mormonism is its restoration (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 635). They teach there was an apostasy and the true church ceased to exist on earth.
We need prophets today, the same as in the Old Testament (Mormon Doctrine, p. 606).
The Book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible (History of the Church, 4:461).
If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670).
Three are many gods (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).
There is a mother god (Articles of Faith, by James Talmadge, p. 443).
God used to be a man on another planet (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, Vol. 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 333).
After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-347, 354).
God the Father had a Father (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 5, p. 19; Milton Hunter, First Council of the Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105).
God resides near a star called Kolob (Pearl of Great Price, pp. 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428).
God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22).
God is in the form of a man (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3).
God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).
We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth (Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, p. 218).
The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129).
The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence" (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).
Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).
A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the Father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Saviour of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god" (Mormon Doctrine, p. 193; Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 8 ).
God had sexual relations with Mary to make the body of Jesus (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, p. 218, 1857; Vol. 8, p. 115). This one is disputed among many Mormons and not always 'officially' taught and believed. Nevertheless, Brigham Young, the second prophet of the Mormon church, taught it.
Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions) (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247, 1856).
Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, p. 92).
There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188).
Baptism for the dead (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. II, p. 141). This is a practice of baptizing each other in place of non-Mormons who are now dead. Their belief is that in the afterlife, the "newly baptized" person will be able to enter into a higher level of Mormon heaven.
The Holy Ghost is a male personage (Le Grand Richards, Salt Lake City, A Marvellous Work and a Wonder, 1956, p. 118; Journal of Discourses, Vol. 5, p. 179).

http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/are ... istian.htm

Historically, only until recently have Mormons wanted to be called Christians, preferring not to be included with Christian denominations, which Joseph Smith said were, "all wrong ... all their creeds were an admonition in his sight, and that those professors (Christians) were all corrupt" (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, 2:18-19).

Mormons have preferred to be called "saints"; however, in the recent years the LDS church has spent millions in an intense "PR" campaign aimed at moving the church into the mainstream of Christianity. The political and economic benefits of Mormons being included in the mainstream of Christianity are obvious. Further, for Mormons to be accepted as traditional Christians would greatly aid in proselytizing the members of Christian denominations into the LDS church. This is why the LDS church is trying so hard to present itself as Christian and is trying to overcome the stigma of being a cult.

The answer to the question, "Are Mormons Christians," is simple. They are not Christians for several reasons, and their unbiblical doctrines show them to be a "Christian" cult.

The name Christian was first used, as Acts 11:26 records, to identify the disciples of Jesus Christ. The word "Christian" is the Greek word "christianos," and it means an adherent of Jesus Christ. It literally means "Christ ones" (Acts 11:26, 26:28, 1 Peter 4:16). The correct definition of the word is one who is a follower of the Jesus Christ of the Bible. For almost two thousand years it has never had a reference to anyone other that the historical Jesus Christ of the New Testament.

Why Mormons Are Not Christian.

First: Mormons do not follow or believe in the historic Jesus Christ of the Bible, but rather in a difference Jesus. This is why most Biblical Christians emphatically insist that Mormons are not Christians.

Note the clear teaching of the Bible as to who the real God is:

Isaiah 43:10-11, "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."

Clearly, Mormonism's god is not the God of Christianity who is the God revealed to us in the Bible. The Mormon god is a god formed from the imaginations of Joseph Smith, and in truth is a false, non-existent god or idol.

Second: The Jesus Christ of Mormonism is not the Jesus Christ of the Bible.

The Mormon Jesus is the son of this man-god. The Mormon Jesus is the brother of Lucifer, and according to LDS teaching, he married several of the Marys of the New Testament. He is not, to the LDS church, "God incarnate" as the Bible plainly states. Clearly, the Mormon god and Jesus are not the true.

God and Jesus of the Bible

Mormons teach that Jesus Christ suffered for sin in the Garden of Gethsemane when He sweat "as it were" great drops of blood. Mormons totally avoid the Biblical teaching of Christ's atonement for sin which was accomplished on the Cross.

Jesus Christ of the Bible is God Incarnate in Man

John 10:30 "I and my Father are one." Jesus claimed to be one with the Father.

John 1:3 states that Jesus is the Creator, and Genesis 1:1 states that God was the Creator.

Only those who believe in the real Biblical God and Jesus Christ have the right to use the name "Christian." The Mormon prophets historically have openly ridiculed those who believe in the God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit that the Bible reveals.

Jesus said that He alone was the truth, the way and the life.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).

Belief in the real Jesus Christ is the only way a man can receive forgiveness of sin and eternal life. The LDS, church in presenting a false Christ is, in fact, leading souls away from salvation and the real Jesus. They reject God's truth and substitute another Jesus who does not exist and cannot save. Only those who believe in the Biblical Jesus Christ will go to heaven when they die. Those who put their trust in a false Christ will be eternally lost. Every true Child of God knows this, and that is why we try so hard to point men away from false churches, prophets, gods and Christs, that they may find God's true Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, and be saved.

[Pastor Cooper P. Abrams, III, Castle Country Baptist Church, P.O. Box 665, Price, Utah 84501,

Here's why:

http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/are ... istian.htm

One question that I would ask all Mormons is this: "If I accept you as a Christian, will you accept me as a Mormon?" Would you accept me as a Mormon if I reject Joseph Smith and all the LDS prophets as being prophets of God. If I do not believe in the Book of Mormon or the LDS Scriptures, baptisms for the dead, the temple endowments, the LDS gospel, would you accept me as a Mormon? The answer is obviously, you would not. In like manner, when Mormonism denies the Bible and every Christian doctrine do you think that Biblical Christians should accept Mormons as Christians? Again the answer is very obvious, no we will not. You cannot legitimately claim to be Christians when you refuse to accept what the Bible teaches and what a true Christian believes.

I would implore Mormons to honestly and openly examine their teachings about God and Jesus Christ and examine who the Bible defines as being a Christian. There is no benefit in calling yourself a "Christian" when Biblically you are not.

http://www.hismin.com/thankyou.htm

Thank You Mr. President

by R. Philip Roberts

That's right, a special thanks to the president. No, not the one in the White House, but the one based at Church Headquarters in Salt Lake City - Gordon B. Hinckley, President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.Recently Mr. Hinckley did both the cause of the true biblical Gospel as well as that of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints much good. Interestingly, both causes were served well, through a speech Mr. Hinckley gave recently in Paris, France. There, on June 4, 1998, in addressing LDS church members and others, Gordon B. Hinckley stated that those outside the Church, who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ," were correct.

In fact, Hinckley commented, "The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages." (Church News, June 20, 1998, p. 7).

In making these comments, Hinckley went on record that mainstream Christianity and the Mormons really do believe in two different Jesus's. One, the Jesus of Christianity, is Eternal God - God of the Word - the Jesus of the Bible. The other is God's offspring, who was born to him and his heavenly consort. This Jesus of Mormonism is also the spiritual elder brother of Lucifer and of us, as well. Traditional Mormonism teaches that their Jesus was married to Mary and Martha, and that the sacrifice for sin was principally paid for in the Garden of Gethsemane.

With his comment, Hinckley placed himself in alignment with previous Mormon leaders, including Bernard P. Brockbank who wrote: "It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

"For example, from the Church of England's Articles of Religion, article one, I quote, 'There is but one living god, everlasting, without body, parts or passions.' The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints worships a God and a Jesus Christ with bodies, with parts, and with passions." (The Ensign, May 1977, p. 26).

President Hinckley, first of all, has done the Mormon church an enormous good in clarifying the issue of which Jesus Mormon's believe in. Mormons have often been thought of as dissembling the issue of Jesus Christ and actually masquerading the differences between their Jesus and the one of the Bible.

This approach is thought by some to be utilized by Mormons in order to enhance their proselyting efforts. In leading Christians to believe that there is one Jesus who fits both beliefs, they can more easily proselyte members of Protestant and Catholic Churches. This perceived lack of candor has led to mistrust and even animosity between Latter-day Saints, their missionaries, and followers of the Christian faith. Without genuine candor and honesty, meaningful interfaith dialogue is impossible. President Hinckley has stepped in the right direction of making clear communication possible on this critical issue.

Regrettably, however, it appears that once again the Latter-day Saints want to have their cake and eat it too. In responding to a letter from Southern Baptist Convention President, Dr. Paige Patterson, in a letter to Gordon B. Hinckley, commending him for his openness, LDS spokesman Mike Otterson commented: "We believe that we have more information on the life of Christ than the Christian community already has. That doesn't mean that we don't embrace the New Testament account of Christ." (Baptist Press, September 25, 1998).

But you have missed the point Mr. Otterson. Your president is right. The Jesus of the Latter-day Saints is altogether different than that of biblical revelation. The two cannot be reconciled. Hence President Hinckley has done service to the biblical and Christian Gospel to have pointed out these obvious and glaring differences between these two Jesus's. It is on our notion of who Christ is that the Gospel stands or falls. Either He is Eternal God, God the Word, who is able to atone for all sin, or He is not. Either He was and is uncreated, CO-existent and CO-eternal with the Father and the Holy Spirit, or He is not.

As Jesus Himself so dramatically portrayed it, there will come a day when many self-confessed followers of His will appear before His judgment seat, but instead of being invited to reside with Him eternally, will be rebuked instead for having gotten it wrong (Matthew 7:21-23). The concept of knowing the right Jesus is a crucial and eternally important one in evangelizing Latter-day Saints and members of all cult groups.

During the Southern Baptist Convention this past June, 1998, I shared a tract and a word about how the Jesus of the Bible had changed my life, with a young man whom I thought to be a young LDS adherent. I was right, he was a Mormon. He immediately shared with me that he believed in Jesus too! I asked him to tell me more about the Jesus he was trusting. With a slight sense of hesitation, he voiced that he believed Jesus was the Son of God, that he suffered the atonement and was raised from the dead. That all sounded so positive and without reflection that it could have passed for being biblical.

The conversation was continued when I asked, "Tell me, the Jesus you believe in, is it the same Jesus who told Joseph Smith that all churches were wrong, that all Christians confessions were an abomination and that all Christians ('professors') were corrupt?" When he hesitated to respond, I reminded him of the source of those words - Joseph Smith Religious History 1:19 in The Pearl of Great Price.

"Yes," he reluctantly admitted, "it is the same Jesus who said that to Joseph Smith." Then I told him it is impossible that you and I believe in the same Jesus, because the Jesus you believe in (the Jesus of Mormonism) is the enemy of Christianity. The Jesus of Mormonism has declared everything that the Bible teaches, and hence the Church believes, about Christ to be an abomination. "It is very critical that we know which Jesus we believe in," I told him. "The Christ of the LDS Church and the one of the Christian faith are not the same."

So, kudos to President Hinckley for agreeing with us about the cavernous difference between the Jesus of Mormon faith and that of Christian revelation and belief.

Simultaneously, we appeal to President Hinckley, his well-meaning advisors, and every thoughtful member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to visit again the Jesus of the Bible. Not only is He eternal God, and therefore an altogether different species than the Jesus of Mormon revelation, but He is also Savior - a Savior, who, as God, was able to suffer and pay the price for all sin. As the Eternal One, crucified and risen, His grace as Redeemer is sufficient for all who recognize Him and will bow the knee to Him as Lord.

___________________

There you have it. The Mormon Godhead is not our Christian Trinity and their Jesus is not our Christian Jesus Christ. Thus, Mormons go to hell, not heaven.

Here's what the Bible and Jesus Christ say about false teachings that distort the biblical Christ and how these false teachers and their brainwashed followers will burn in hell for their blasphemy.

http://www.hismin.com/thankyou.htm
And again, from the Gospel of Mark: "And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ;' or, 'Lo, he is there;' believe him not. For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed; behold, I have foretold you all things. (Mark 13:21-23.)Paul, in speaking to the Corinthians, said, "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.(2 Corinthians 11:3-4.)And Paul continues in verses 13-15, "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."Consider again which Christ you are following and what "prophet" brought you this "other" Gospel.

Beep - beep - beep - beep - beep
system overload



Ochotseat - lot's of great stuff there, though I really doubt that Tanyan will get through much, if any of it. It's funny that I jokingly compared the mormons to the freemasons with the secret handshakes and all, and darn if that's not the case.

Satan is like a roaring lion seeing who he may devour...and he's devoured about 12 million mormons. They need our prayers for sure.

Utah's Dark Reality
If Mormonism is so transforming, shouldn't that be reflected in the CDC statistics?
(Note: Utah is 70% Mormon)



According to the Center for Disease Control (CDC) the leading cause of death in America is heart disease, with suicide ranking eleventh. [1] Compare that with what the Utah Department of Health says. They report the leading cause of death for males between the ages of 15-44 as suicide. The Utah External Injury Data System says that from 1992 to 1999 there were 7,713 suicides alone. Eleven of those were between the ages of 0-9 years of age. [2] The rate of suicide in Utah for females between the ages of 15-44 is four times the national average. With this being said, the CDC has been “unable to explain the regional variation of suicide”. About 20 percent of successful suicides have occurred in the 13-21 year old age bracket. The Utah Department of Health has declared it an “epidemic”. For the past four decades now, Utah has ranked in the top ten for numbers of suicides in the nation. [3] What is equally disturbing is that the other nine states are located in the intermountain west and Alaska. [4]

Just think about this for a moment, you've got more than a handful of little people who have witnessed such horrific events in their short lives and have learned this is the only way out…



Between 1996-8 the Office of Vital Records and Statistics reported that suicide accounts for 27 percent of deaths in intentional and unintentional deaths in Utah. There were 3,399 deaths in this category. That means there were more than 917 suicides in that two to three year time frame.

A news report on BYU NewsNet states Sterling C. Hilton, assistant professor in the statistics department, as saying “the natural tendency is to assume that since Utah has a predominantly Latter-day Saint population, (70% of the population is LDS), the church must contribute to the level of depression and suicides in Utah.” Newsnet said that Hilton and others performed a study that said just the opposite is true of what the statistics show. “No evidence suggests that church demands and pressures on its members account for the high suicide rate in Utah," Hilton said. [5]

This has to be one of the most insidious comments I have heard in a long time. How could there possibly not be any connections? I lived as a Mormon for 30 years. The demands in Mormonism are so great that it is nothing short of arrogance to assume that there isn't a connection. The Mormon Church itself said in the book Eternal Man; 'Suicide is just a change of scenery'. [6]

Newsnet went on to say “the church activity level of the men studied was determined by whether or not they had the appropriate priesthood calling for their age. In other words, if a 16-year-old had been ordained to the office of a priest, he was considered active. The study does not account for the higher suicide rate in Utah overall, a statistic that has baffled sociologists for decades.” I truly believe that they need to bring in some objective mental health advisors to take a hard look at it and tell them the truth, or better yet, call me!

It probably has something to do with the quest for godhood and knowing you can't go to heaven if you're not perfect. The following from Mormon Doctrine is just one example of what goes on in the mind of a typical Mormon:



“Christ is the example. "He received a fullness of truth, yea, even of all truth" (D. & C. 93:26), so John tells us. That is, the attribute of truth was perfected in him in the eternal sense and there was not anything which he did not know. If men become perfect, they must do so on the same basis, progressing until they gain all truth, all knowledge, and all the attributes of Deity in their perfection. (D. & C. 93:20-28.) Only those who keep all the commandments and for whom the family unit continues in eternity will merit perfection. (D. & C. 131:1-4; 132:16-32.) This kind of perfection comes not by the Levitical Priesthood (Heb. 7:11), nor can we without our worthy dead attain unto this high status. (Heb. 11:40.)”. Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 568.

SIGH !, More Polemical Dialectic.
http://www.ldsfaqs.com/links.html .These sites respond to all your polemical Diatribes. Some links may be not working temporarily. Have fun.
And by the way if you had read my posts without Right Wing Evangelical/Fundamentalist Sunglasses you would have read that I have no bad/evil thought for "ALL' evangelical/Fundamentalists. Thanks again for the polemics. Remember, "NO CHEAP GRACE !". In His Debt, Tanyan.

In the link above go to the F.A.I.R web site to get the "REAL" statistics, when will it ever end ?.