Evidence for God from Science

bizzt wrote:

jenna wrote:If the Sabbath was "done away" then why did Christ call Himself "lord of the SABBATH"? God plainly states in the bible "I CHANGE NOT". Jesus also said he did not come to do away with the law, but to fulfill it. The Sabbath has not changed. God said it would be a "sign" between Him and His people. He knew men would change His day of worship, that is why He said "REMEMBER the Sabbath day and keep IT holy.

Jenna,

What do you believe the Sabbath day is? Is it Saturday by our Calenders or are we supposed to go by the Jewish Calender?

Thanks

Both calendars would have the seventh day as being Saturday, so I am not really following you here?

bizzt wrote:

jenna wrote:If the Sabbath was "done away" then why did Christ call Himself "lord of the SABBATH"? God plainly states in the bible "I CHANGE NOT". Jesus also said he did not come to do away with the law, but to fulfill it. The Sabbath has not changed. God said it would be a "sign" between Him and His people. He knew men would change His day of worship, that is why He said "REMEMBER the Sabbath day and keep IT holy.

Jenna,

What do you believe the Sabbath day is? Is it Saturday by our Calenders or are we supposed to go by the Jewish Calender?

Thanks

Better question to you is, Do you believe the Jews are keeping "their" correct Sabbath? Is it by date or by day...since a while back someone asked if their b-day falls on the same day every year....
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BavarianWheels wrote:

bizzt wrote:

jenna wrote:If the Sabbath was "done away" then why did Christ call Himself "lord of the SABBATH"? God plainly states in the bible "I CHANGE NOT". Jesus also said he did not come to do away with the law, but to fulfill it. The Sabbath has not changed. God said it would be a "sign" between Him and His people. He knew men would change His day of worship, that is why He said "REMEMBER the Sabbath day and keep IT holy.

Jenna,

What do you believe the Sabbath day is? Is it Saturday by our Calenders or are we supposed to go by the Jewish Calender?

Thanks

Better question to you is, Do you believe the Jews are keeping "their" correct Sabbath? Is it by date or by day...since a while back someone asked if their b-day falls on the same day every year...

Here we go again:

Quote
Pesach —Passover- will occur on the following days of the Gregorian calendar:
• Jewish Year 5768: sunset April 19, 2008 - nightfall April 27, 2008
• Jewish Year 5769: sunset April 8, 2009 - nightfall April 16, 2009
• Jewish Year 5770: sunset March 29, 2010 - nightfall April 6, 2010
• Jewish Year 5771: sunset April 18, 2011 - nightfall April 26, 2011-
• Jewish Year 5772: sunset April 6, 2012 - nightfall April 14, 2012

Quote above from this website

Note:

• Jewish Year 5768: sunset April 19, 2008 - nightfall April 27, 2008 - First day falls on Sunday
• Jewish Year 5769: sunset April 8, 2009 - nightfall April 16, 2009 — First day 4/9 Thursday
• Jewish Year 5770: sunset March 29, 2010 - nightfall April 6, 2010- First day 3/30 Wednesday
• Jewish Year 5771: sunset April 18, 2011 - nightfall April 26, 2011-First day 4/14 Monday
• Jewish Year 5772: sunset April 6, 2012 - nightfall April 14, 2012 - First day 4/7-Saturday

Questions:

— The Passover does not fall on the same Solar Calendar day every year, then why would the Sabbath day?

-Do you know what day the 1st day of creation was on? If so — where in the bible is Saturday mentioned?

-Point is — we have all broken the Sabbath and need Jesus Christ's redemption.

-What does the bible say sends a person to Heaven or Hell? - Denying Jesus Christ's redemption or not keeping a Saturday Sabbath?

-Is blaspheme of the Holy Sprit the same as not keeping the Saturday Sabbath?

-Last Question: Which is more important - Jesus Christ's redemption or keeping a Saturday Sabbath?-
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BavarianWheels wrote:

bizzt wrote:

jenna wrote:If the Sabbath was "done away" then why did Christ call Himself "lord of the SABBATH"? God plainly states in the bible "I CHANGE NOT". Jesus also said he did not come to do away with the law, but to fulfill it. The Sabbath has not changed. God said it would be a "sign" between Him and His people. He knew men would change His day of worship, that is why He said "REMEMBER the Sabbath day and keep IT holy.

Jenna,

What do you believe the Sabbath day is? Is it Saturday by our Calenders or are we supposed to go by the Jewish Calender?

Thanks

Better question to you is, Do you believe the Jews are keeping "their" correct Sabbath? Is it by date or by day...since a while back someone asked if their b-day falls on the same day every year....
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Yes, this is what I believe. It is by day, not by date.

B. W. wrote:

BavarianWheels wrote:

bizzt wrote:

jenna wrote:If the Sabbath was "done away" then why did Christ call Himself "lord of the SABBATH"? God plainly states in the bible "I CHANGE NOT". Jesus also said he did not come to do away with the law, but to fulfill it. The Sabbath has not changed. God said it would be a "sign" between Him and His people. He knew men would change His day of worship, that is why He said "REMEMBER the Sabbath day and keep IT holy.

Jenna,

What do you believe the Sabbath day is? Is it Saturday by our Calenders or are we supposed to go by the Jewish Calender?

Thanks

Better question to you is, Do you believe the Jews are keeping "their" correct Sabbath? Is it by date or by day...since a while back someone asked if their b-day falls on the same day every year...

Here we go again:

Quote
Pesach —Passover- will occur on the following days of the Gregorian calendar:
• Jewish Year 5768: sunset April 19, 2008 - nightfall April 27, 2008
• Jewish Year 5769: sunset April 8, 2009 - nightfall April 16, 2009
• Jewish Year 5770: sunset March 29, 2010 - nightfall April 6, 2010
• Jewish Year 5771: sunset April 18, 2011 - nightfall April 26, 2011-
• Jewish Year 5772: sunset April 6, 2012 - nightfall April 14, 2012

Quote above from this website

Note:

• Jewish Year 5768: sunset April 19, 2008 - nightfall April 27, 2008 - First day falls on Sunday
• Jewish Year 5769: sunset April 8, 2009 - nightfall April 16, 2009 — First day 4/9 Thursday
• Jewish Year 5770: sunset March 29, 2010 - nightfall April 6, 2010- First day 3/30 Wednesday
• Jewish Year 5771: sunset April 18, 2011 - nightfall April 26, 2011-First day 4/14 Monday
• Jewish Year 5772: sunset April 6, 2012 - nightfall April 14, 2012 - First day 4/7-Saturday

Questions:

— The Passover does not fall on the same Solar Calendar day every year, then why would the Sabbath day?

-Do you know what day the 1st day of creation was on? If so — where in the bible is Saturday mentioned?

-Point is — we have all broken the Sabbath and need Jesus Christ's redemption.

-What does the bible say sends a person to Heaven or Hell? - Denying Jesus Christ's redemption or not keeping a Saturday Sabbath?

-Is blaspheme of the Holy Sprit the same as not keeping the Saturday Sabbath?

-Last Question: Which is more important - Jesus Christ's redemption or keeping a Saturday Sabbath?-
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I agree, BW, here we go again. I didn't start this over, I merely answered a question that was asked of me. In answer to your questions, the passover goes by date, not by day, so naturally it wouldn't be the same every year.
2)Days were not around until God created them, so the first day of creation would have been, well, the first day of the week.
It is true we all need Christ's redemption, and have broken the Sabbath. I certainly have, many times. But I still believe it is the 7th day, saturday.
3)As far as going to heaven or hell, you know I don't believe in this, but for argument's sake, christ Himself tells us that to have eternal life, one must obey the commandments. This does not in any way say that we should deny Christ's redemption, but that will not be the only thing that will give us eternal life. If we kept all the commandments and lived the life we were supposed to, there would have been no need for Christ's death.
4)No, it is not the same thing.
5)see reply #3. If we had kept all God's laws and commandments, there would have been no need for Christ's redemption.

All in all, there was never a breaking of the weekly 7-day cycle. Months have a different amount of days, some have 30, some have 31, and one has 28 (except leap year, which it then has 29). This is the reason why my birthday doesn't fall on the same weekday every year. The months and years were recreated by man, but the week cycle was created by God, and is the only time-frame that has never been changed throughout the course of history.

B. W. wrote: Questions:

— The Passover does not fall on the same Solar Calendar day every year, then why would the Sabbath day?

-Do you know what day the 1st day of creation was on? If so — where in the bible is Saturday mentioned?

-Point is — we have all broken the Sabbath and need Jesus Christ's redemption.

-What does the bible say sends a person to Heaven or Hell? - Denying Jesus Christ's redemption or not keeping a Saturday Sabbath?

-Is blaspheme of the Holy Sprit the same as not keeping the Saturday Sabbath?

-Last Question: Which is more important - Jesus Christ's redemption or keeping a Saturday Sabbath?-

Here we go again?

The Passover is a time counting a number of Sabbaths and or days from a certain Sabbath or something to that effect and is not a certain day of the week. The days of the week were not named at creation except the 1st, 2nd,...and lastly the 7th...so no I do not know what day of the week creation started. Then it is God himself that says (and writes with His own finger) to REMEMBER...then shows His people which day is the Sabbath or 7th day with the manna...and finally with His own example in His life AND His death...so which day do you believe Christ died on? If you know that day, you know the Sabbath...you can't not know the day of His death, or the day of His resurrection...it's just that pesky day inbetween that is a thorn in the side.

The point is NOT that we've all broken the Sabbath...which I believe we have and continue to do so...if it were, the point is more that we've all broken God's law in it's entirety (sp?) however you haven't put aside the law of murder, adultery, honor of parents, stealing...why? The Sabbath is not a matter of death or life in its keeping, however it is a point of separation...how defined that point is, I'd rather not toy with - with the claim that Christ never mentioned it, when He lived it.

Are we not "Christ-ians"...follwers of what He did and said or just what he said...??

Sin is sin...you know it and I know it. To make one sin out to be better than the other is just grasping at the air.

Which is more important, Following Christ fully in both example and words or just His words?
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BavarianWheels wrote:Here we go again?

The Passover is a time counting a number of Sabbaths and or days from a certain Sabbath or something to that effect and is not a certain day of the week. The days of the week were not named at creation except the 1st, 2nd,...and lastly the 7th...so no I do not know what day of the week creation started. Then it is God himself that says (and writes with His own finger) to REMEMBER...then shows His people which day is the Sabbath or 7th day with the manna...and finally with His own example in His life AND His death...so which day do you believe Christ died on? If you know that day, you know the Sabbath...you can't not know the day of His death, or the day of His resurrection...it's just that pesky day inbetween that is a thorn in the side.

The point is NOT that we've all broken the Sabbath...which I believe we have and continue to do so...if it were, the point is more that we've all broken God's law in it's entirety (sp?) however you haven't put aside the law of murder, adultery, honor of parents, stealing...why? The Sabbath is not a matter of death or life in its keeping, however it is a point of separation...how defined that point is, I'd rather not toy with - with the claim that Christ never mentioned it, when He lived it.

Are we not "Christ-ians"...follwers of what He did and said or just what he said...?? Sin is sin...you know it and I know it. To make one sin out to be better than the other is just grasping at the air. Which is more important, Following Christ fully in both example and words or just His words?

No problem BavarianWheels nice to hear that you admit not knowing what the real day the seventh day of creation fell on. I rest my case.

I suggest we drop this for now as we both agree as to what is really important - Christ work on the cross and loving each other as Christ loves us.

God bless!
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Ok, BW, if you don't want to comment on my post, that's fine. Christ would never have been on the cross if people had obeyed the commandments to start with.

jenna wrote:Ok, BW, if you don't want to comment on my post, that's fine. Christ would never have been on the cross if people had obeyed the commandments to start with.

While all of us, with the exception of Christ have not obeyed all the commandments, do you think it is our personal track record in that regard that condemns us before God, or is it our identification with Adam's sin in the first place?

In other words are we sinners because we've sinned, or do we sin, because we are sinners?

That's a huge question and it explains a great deal of the differences of opinion in this area.

I believe we sin because we are sinners identified in Adam's originial rebellion and this is what Christ's atonement addresses and saves us from.

jenna wrote:Ok, BW, if you don't want to comment on my post, that's fine. Christ would never have been on the cross if people had obeyed the commandments to start with.

Romans 3:20, "For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it-- 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 or all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 t was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith." ESV

Romans 13:8, "Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." ESV

That should answer your post...
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Well, actually it doesn't tell me what you personally think, but that's ok.

B. W. wrote:

BavarianWheels wrote:Here we go again?

The Passover is a time counting a number of Sabbaths and or days from a certain Sabbath or something to that effect and is not a certain day of the week. The days of the week were not named at creation except the 1st, 2nd,...and lastly the 7th...so no I do not know what day of the week creation started. Then it is God himself that says (and writes with His own finger) to REMEMBER...then shows His people which day is the Sabbath or 7th day with the manna...and finally with His own example in His life AND His death...so which day do you believe Christ died on? If you know that day, you know the Sabbath...you can't not know the day of His death, or the day of His resurrection...it's just that pesky day inbetween that is a thorn in the side.

The point is NOT that we've all broken the Sabbath...which I believe we have and continue to do so...if it were, the point is more that we've all broken God's law in it's entirety (sp?) however you haven't put aside the law of murder, adultery, honor of parents, stealing...why? The Sabbath is not a matter of death or life in its keeping, however it is a point of separation...how defined that point is, I'd rather not toy with - with the claim that Christ never mentioned it, when He lived it.

Are we not "Christ-ians"...follwers of what He did and said or just what he said...?? Sin is sin...you know it and I know it. To make one sin out to be better than the other is just grasping at the air. Which is more important, Following Christ fully in both example and words or just His words?

No problem BavarianWheels nice to hear that you admit not knowing what the real day the seventh day of creation fell on. I rest my case.

I suggest we drop this for now as we both agree as to what is really important - Christ work on the cross and loving each other as Christ loves us.

God bless!

If they are ALL SUMMED UP IN LOVE...then I suppose according to you that "all" is a lie as it doesn't include the Sabbath as I see it's the only one in contention here.

I suppose what you're actually saying is that God Himself doesn't know...

I like how you're able to put words in my mouth...you just don't seem to like the fact that God showed His people which day was His...over and over again. I suppose you just read and understood what you wanted from the above...convenient for your position.

The texts you posted last are good...except for the fact also that Paul unmistakably promotes the keeping of the Law by upholding it...and not a part thereof.

It is Christ we follow...His life example, His words. None of which alluded to a change in His Law.

Your suggestion to drop the subject is simply because there is no explanation in reconciling Christs's life with the ASSUMPTION that He removed the Sabbath from His law...then there's that pesky part about God not changing...that's always a small pebble in the mix.

The question is, is there a line that is drawn by God concerning keeping His law...? If so, where is it? If not, where is it? In other words which part of His law is the part that He says, "Oh...nevermind that part, I was just kidding." If we are guilty of breaking one law...aren't we guilty of breaking them all? So...where is that line again? Oh...no line...a blot?

What's that part about all scripture?...Which scripture was he talking about...hmmm.
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