Evidence for God from Science

Widge wrote:I know Gay people and have asked them the question. I have primary evidence. Where is yours?

You have primary evidence of what? That God 'made' them gay? I have the Word of God:

Gen. 2:20-22,24
20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field. But for Adam no suitable helper was found.

21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh.

22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

24For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

God's intentions are very clear.

DannyM wrote:

Widge wrote:I know Gay people and have asked them the question. I have primary evidence. Where is yours?

You have primary evidence of what? That God 'made' them gay? I have the Word of God:

Gen. 2:20-22,24
20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field. But for Adam no suitable helper was found.

21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh.

22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

24For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

God's intentions are very clear.

None of those verses say that God does not make Gay people. All those verses prove is God created marriage between men and women. God does make Gay people from birth I have met them and that is what they have told me. That is my primary evidence. God answers your prayers then I would believe you so why do you not trust other posters on this website?

Widge wrote:None of those verses say that God does not make Gay people. All those verses prove is God created marriage between men and women. God does make Gay people from birth I have met them and that is what they have told me. That is my primary evidence. God answers your prayers then I would believe you so why do you not trust other posters on this website?

So because that is what they told you you take their word over God's? I don't trust you one bit when you go agasinst God's word. As I said, God's intentions are very clear. So, what are your intentions?

None of those verses say that God does not make Gay people. All those verses prove is God created marriage between men and women. God does make Gay people from birth I have met them and that is what they have told me. That is my primary evidence. God answers your prayers then I would believe you so why do you not trust other posters on this website?

Widge, ask those people how they know they have been homosexual since birth. Can they prove that experience in their lives, isn't what helped them choose the HS lifestyle?

RickD wrote:

None of those verses say that God does not make Gay people. All those verses prove is God created marriage between men and women. God does make Gay people from birth I have met them and that is what they have told me. That is my primary evidence. God answers your prayers then I would believe you so why do you not trust other posters on this website?

Widge, ask those people how they know they have been homosexual since birth. Can they prove that experience in their lives, isn't what helped them choose the HS lifestyle?

Yes they have proved it by their experience. Just like your experience of God? Can you prove it 100%? No but that does not mean it is not true. The facts are God creates Gay people

Widge wrote:

RickD wrote:

None of those verses say that God does not make Gay people. All those verses prove is God created marriage between men and women. God does make Gay people from birth I have met them and that is what they have told me. That is my primary evidence. God answers your prayers then I would believe you so why do you not trust other posters on this website?

Widge, ask those people how they know they have been homosexual since birth. Can they prove that experience in their lives, isn't what helped them choose the HS lifestyle?

Yes they have proved it by their experience. Just like your experience of God? Can you prove it 100%? No but that does not mean it is not true. The facts are God creates Gay people

Do you know what a "fact" is? We can test people's claims against God's word. The claims of your friends are in conflict with God's holy word. Therefore your friends' claims are to be dismissed on these grounds. Do you pray to the Holy Spirit?

Yes they have proved it by their experience.

How? What experience proves that they were born HS?

That does not answer my claim that our churches focus on judging others when Jesus told us not to judge and Jesus told us not to cast the first stone.

Widge,
Focus? Jesus didn't tell us not to judge. He told us HOW to judge. Taking two words, (judge not) out of the context of what Jesus taught shows that you do not rightly handle the Word of truth. The Bible in its whole counsel is clear that we are to judge sin where it is found within the church. That is not sin specific per se. The modern church is very lax on discipline. The reason homosexuality is such an issue is because of how aggressive the pro-gay movement is in forcing people to face this issue where it affects them. The average church or believer does not have an agenda regarding homosexuality. Most of us are forced to have to deal with it. For example, last I checked there weren't any pro-adultery parades being held. No people trying to get children's books into school systems that advocate adulterous lifestyles. Yet, these are realities of the homosexual movement.

Arguing that God "made" someone gay is preposterous. That is the equivalent of saying God made some child molestors, or alcoholics, or wife beaters, or lazy, or stupid, deformed, or retarded. The reality of a sinful world is that the effects of sin have corrupted the creation. Defect and disease are a reality. There is simply no proof as to genetic disposition to same sex attraction. But, if they are born with the propensity to like the same sex, it is not because God "made" them that way. As I already addressed in an earlier post and you completely ignored. Either you will follow your logic through to its necessary ends or you will ignore.
You said the church focuses on this. Can you give me some specific examples, because I am not following what you are saying?

Speaking to Gay friends and Gay colleagues at work all of them say that when they were young they were attracted to men therefore God made them Gay.

I have known a number of gay people. In fact I new identical twins, one was gay the other not. The guy that cuts my hair is gay, and he has confided several things to me, that his behavior is the result of sexual abuse when he was a child. He doens't believe he was 'born' that way. Another of my very good friends in highschool was homosexual. He was abused and abandoned by his father. I found a stash of gay porn he had hidden. Was he feeding a good desire? Let me ask you. Do you feed every desire you ever have? Have you given in to every desire you were "born" with? If you haven't then you are not living what you are preacing.

Now, all that said. Believers should NOT make it a point to single out homosexual behavior above other sins. But neither should believers try to negate that homosexual behavior is a sin.



1 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Widge on Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:38 pm

RickD wrote:
None of those verses say that God does not make Gay people. All those verses prove is God created marriage between men and women. God does make Gay people from birth I have met them and that is what they have told me. That is my primary evidence. God answers your prayers then I would believe you so why do you not trust other posters on this website?

Widge, ask those people how they know they have been homosexual since birth. Can they prove that experience in their lives, isn't what helped them choose the HS lifestyle?


Yes they have proved it by their experience. Just like your experience of God? Can you prove it 100%? No but that does not mean it is not true. The facts are God creates Gay people

I think I am God, does my saying so makes what I am saying true? just because my mind tells me the same?

WOW..pretty rock solid argument you got there. I don't' hate gays, but what you are saying is baseless.

Very interesting. What I saye is "baseless" "preposterous" etc.. I wonder how many Homsexuals you know? I wonder if you have ever asked them whether they were born Gay? I would love to hear such interviews as what you say go against basic facts. If you said to a Gay that he was not born as such I do not think his/her answer would be repeatable on this forum.

I love the "Bible tells us how to judge" arguement. Only God is judge. We are all sins and continue sinning yet it seems it is easy to pick on the Homosexuals. I wonder why? I wonder what Jesus would do? I think you will be suprised and shocked.

We are all sins and continue sinning yet it seems it is easy to pick on the Homosexuals. I wonder why? I wonder what Jesus would do? I think you will be suprised and shocked.

You seem to be saying that we are picking on gay people, if you actually read the whole of this thread it actually says quite the opposite.
I know exactly what Jesus would do John 8:11 comes to mind.
We are taught to love the sinner and hate the sin and judge as Jesus taught us, homosexuality is a sin as defined in many parts of the Bible.

Daniel

Widge on Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:24 pm

Very interesting. What I saye is "baseless" "preposterous" etc.. I wonder how many Homsexuals you know? I wonder if you have ever asked them whether they were born Gay? I would love to hear such interviews as what you say go against basic facts. If you said to a Gay that he was not born as such I do not think his/her answer would be repeatable on this forum.

What you are saying, is baseless. if its gonna come down to "how many gays you know" kind of argument, then its silly. It is assumption at its best, what does it prove? For all the Bible that you know, you sure must have read about people who thought they were right when in truth they weren't. People can be wrong always, you, me, gays, anyone. So, this proves nothing and makes your point, irrelevant.

Widge wrote:
I love the "Bible tells us how to judge" arguement. Only God is judge. We are all sins and continue sinning yet it seems it is easy to pick on the Homosexuals. I wonder why? I wonder what Jesus would do?

Explain

Matthew 7:5 (jesus said this) , Jude 22 , Galatians 6:1 , James 5:20 , 1 Peter 4:8-10

Widge, you make all sorts of arguments then never back them up with solid bible verses. You can never win any debate in a christian forum by saying your opinion repeatedly without any backing. And also that whole "WWJD" thing you threw in at the bottom has 0 backing. Re-read the parable in Matthew Chapter 7, it says pretty clearly to judge others. I even took the liberty of posting the exact verse above.

Murray wrote:

Widge wrote:
I love the "Bible tells us how to judge" arguement. Only God is judge. We are all sins and continue sinning yet it seems it is easy to pick on the Homosexuals. I wonder why? I wonder what Jesus would do?

Explain

Matthew 7:5 (jesus said this) , Jude 22 , Galatians 6:1 , James 5:20 , 1 Peter 4:8-10

Widge, you make all sorts of arguments then never back them up with solid bible verses. You can never win any debate in a christian forum by saying your opinion repeatedly without any backing. And also that whole "WWJD" thing you threw in at the bottom has 0 backing. Re-read the parable in Matthew Chapter 7, it says pretty clearly to judge others. I even took the liberty of posting the exact verse above.

So you lot have proved that you do not know any Gay people and therefore you ignore their experiences and ignore what they say. Very interesting. I have aksed the Gay people I know and they say they are born that way. They should know not you or me.

God made them Gay just like he makes all of us who are prone to sin. By the way on judgements:


Luke 6:37 "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
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Luke 6:41 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
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John 8:7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

Oh dear why or why do you ignore Jesus?

So you lot have proved that you do not know any Gay people and therefore you ignore their experiences and ignore what they say. Very interesting. I have aksed the Gay people I know and they say they are born that way. They should know not you or me.

God made them Gay just like he makes all of us who are prone to sin. By the way on judgements:

Widge, do you seriously want to use the childish argument "I know gay people more than you." Who have told you about how many gays they know? no one yet. still you throw off assumptions for us and no proper argument.