Evidence for God from Science

Nicki wrote:

RickD wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:I had to type in /// Scientific Evidence for a World Wide Flood
Evidence for a Global Flood

Two very good articles.

I was asked for non-Biblical proof of a global flood. It's There. In plain secular English.

The link you posted does not work.

I noticed 'evolution' was misspelled, at least, but I found the Unmasking Evolution - Evidence for a Global Flood article. Try looking that up and see what you think of it. Some of the points are a bit flimsy but there are a lot of points.

Did it make the point that geologists find "flood" about as capable an explanation
for earth history as doctors find "bad air" for the cause of malaria, or chemists accept earth, air, fire and water as the list of elements?

It is really sort of shockjng that so many people in the West are so backwards
and superstitious. (and I dont mean about malaria)

audie

'shockjng' is really "shocking" an 'i' rather than a 'j'.

Just think -- I'm a 'West' person and I know how to spell.

And we're backwards and superstitious -- thanks. So -- I guess That means we're all supposed to believe just like you and we'll be fine. Well -- God has made us all unique / we are individually special. So, I'm fine being 'me' and will let you be 'you'.

Nicki wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:In Habakkuk's prayer (Habakkuk 3:6 NIV):

• "He stood, and shook the earth;
  he looked, and made the nations tremble.
  The ancient mountains crumbled
  and the age-old hills collapsed—
  but he marches on forever."

I guess those three days between the land rising out of the waters and the creation of man really make a difference, such that the mountains are "ancient" and hills are "age-old" but mankind isn't.

Was that supposed to be describing something back at the creation of man? Or maybe the writer thought of humanity as being as ancient as the hills. We describe something as ancient when it's only 2000 years old. The passage is poetry, after all.

Yes, you are correct to question. Perhaps it just means the the mountains and hills have endured through time i.e., your age of 2000 years or so.

We also have Wisdom being spoken of in Proverbs 8:22-25:

• "The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way,
  Before His works of old.
  23 “From everlasting I was established,
  From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.
  24 “When there were no depths I was brought forth,
  When there were no springs abounding with water.
  25 “Before the mountains were settled,
  Before the hills I was brought forth;

For myself, the picture depicted to me in Scripture for mountains, heavens and other things, during the earliest times, isn't just a feature of "endurance", but rather representative of epochs, generations of existence of things before other things...

Genesis 2:4 KJV reads:

• "These are the generations [towledah] of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day [yom] that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,"

The "6-day creation" (not 7 because God rested on the seventh) had "generations", like generations of Adam (Gen 5:1), generations of Noah (Gen 6:9), generations of Noah's sons (Gen 10:1), seems to imply many happenings or eras of different generations -- only the heavens and the earth have them at the time of God's creations.

I expect you'll be forthright which I like, what are your feelings about such Nicki?

Kurieuo wrote:

Nicki wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:In Habakkuk's prayer (Habakkuk 3:6 NIV):

• "He stood, and shook the earth;
  he looked, and made the nations tremble.
  The ancient mountains crumbled
  and the age-old hills collapsed—
  but he marches on forever."

I guess those three days between the land rising out of the waters and the creation of man really make a difference, such that the mountains are "ancient" and hills are "age-old" but mankind isn't.

Was that supposed to be describing something back at the creation of man? Or maybe the writer thought of humanity as being as ancient as the hills. We describe something as ancient when it's only 2000 years old. The passage is poetry, after all.

Yes, you are correct to question. Perhaps it just means the the mountains and hills have endured through time i.e., your age of 2000 years or so.

We also have Wisdom being spoken of in Proverbs 8:22-25:

• "The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way,
  Before His works of old.
  23 “From everlasting I was established,
  From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.
  24 “When there were no depths I was brought forth,
  When there were no springs abounding with water.
  25 “Before the mountains were settled,
  Before the hills I was brought forth;

For myself, the picture depicted to me in Scripture for mountains, heavens and other things, during the earliest times, isn't just a feature of "endurance", but rather representative of epochs, generations of existence of things before other things...

Genesis 2:4 KJV reads:

• "These are the generations [towledah] of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day [yom] that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,"

The "6-day creation" (not 7 because God rested on the seventh) had "generations", like generations of Adam (Gen 5:1), generations of Noah (Gen 6:9), generations of Noah's sons (Gen 10:1), seems to imply many happenings or eras of different generations -- only the heavens and the earth have them at the time of God's creations.

I expect you'll be forthright which I like, what are your feelings about such Nicki?

I would like to point out that when it sais "These are the generation OF the heavens and of the earth" it means there were generations of the heavens and of the earth.Just like the generations of Adam,generations of Noah and Generations of Noah's son. This means there were generations of the heavens and of the earth before the day(which are the 6 days of creation) that the Lord God MADE (Asah - not bara or created)the earth and the heavens. This means the heavens and earth are old because there were generations before God made the earth and heavens in the 6 days of creation.

So the bible tells us the earth is old and you don't even have to realize that yom can mean longer than 24 hours and even in this verse you can see it can and does because it says day and we know it was the 6 days of creation.

Interestingly though alot of modern bible have removed "These are the generations" from Genesis 2:4. Yet not for the other places shown above where "these are the generations" are used. Why just when it comes to the heavens and the earth or the creation and not the generations of Adam,Noah and his sons?? What are they trying to hide? Biblical evidence for an old earth? The book of Revelation warns about adding or taking away from God's word.

But I still think something is being overlooked and that is that Moses stressed for us to know the difference between the words created and made.

Genesis 2:1-4 "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished,and all the host of them.
verse 2 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had MADE(asah);and he rested on the seventh day from all the work which he had MADE(asah)"
Moses is stressing to us that it was MADE in the six days and it was not created in the 6 days.
verse 3 "And God blessed the seventh day,and sanctified it: because that in it he rested from all his work which God created(bara) and made(asah)." Notice the words created and made being used for a distinction and it continues.Also God both created and made things in the 6 days of creation,he did not just create things,some things he created and some things he made and it is important to notice this.
verse 4 "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created(bara),in the day the Lord God made(asah) the EARTH and the HEAVENS."

Now if you go back to Genesis 1 and read it you'll see God works on the earth first and then the heavens and then you'll see God both made and created certian things, like when it comes to the stars? He made them and certian life he created and certian life he made. Moses was stressing for us to know the difference between the words created and made so that we interpret it properly when we read it.

Crotchet: "But no one seems to question writings like Shakespeare or others going from one language to another." You couldn't be more wrong. Every word attributed to Shakespeare has been continuously and carefully analysed to try to understand what he actually meant. In some cases we simply have no idea, but that hasn't stopped Shakespeare scholars from squabbling over their interpretations just as vehemently as biblical ones.

"Where did those laws of physics come from?" That question, of course, as has been pointed out before, is the essence of the distinction between theists and atheists. For me, they are an expression of the divine will; for atheists, an irrelevance or a question to be avoided. It is, however, a philosophical question, not a scientific one.

"Apparently a solar system is a part of the universe. The Milky Way is part of or a solar system? And the earth is just a tiniest dot In the Milky Way. That in itself is truly amazing." It is, but you still seem rather confused...

The universe - all that is - about 100 billion light years across, about fourteen billion years old, containing about 100 billion galaxies. Galaxies contain about 100 billion solar systems. One of these galaxies is called the Milky Way.

Solar systems - single stars and everything which orbits them - about 2 light years across, about four billion years old, containing dust, planets (such as ours), comets and other stuff. Our solar system is one of the 100 billion solar systems in the Milky Way galaxy, which is one of the 100 billion galaxies in the universe.

acb -- that's one of the problems with the more modern Bibles. They adjust for the more modern thought of the day which can be problematic with the way Society is going.
Moses is sharing with us that which the Holy Spirit is telling him to share. That is why we know about the beginning of this world -- no one other than the Godhead was here to know what happened. The Holy Spirit / God / told Moses what to write.
And, yes, 'yom' Can mean longer than 24 hrs in a day -- but -- are you referring to the reference that says that a thousand years are as a day and a day like a thousand years? Cause my understanding is that That means that for God -- 'time' is meaningless. "Time' is for Our benefit. And we do have 24 hr days. That hasn't changed from 'earlier'. That's simply how the earth rotates. One time around in 24 hrs.

Created out of Nothing. Made out of what had previously been created.

Crochet,

In your opinion, were the first 3 creation days 24 hours long?

The earth's rotation has been slowing more or less since its creation. Its first days were probably about 20 hours long...

Correct:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_rotation

hugh
Will admit something -- I've always avoided Shakespeare simply because I've never been in to that type of literature. It IS hard to understand. The point I was trying to make it is Shakespeare's authenticity has never been questioned. It's always been accepted as authentic literature. Not so with the Bible. The authenticity of the author has always been questioned by -- does the 'God' that the Bible portrays really exist. Or is it really a book of mythology put together by some 'group'.
God's Word has been a " befuddler" for people since the beginning. Lots of it Is very understandable. Some isn't. The important information about salvation / eternity is easily understandable. Sometimes it's simply that we don't like what we are reading. It's not that the information we are reading is Wrong. And then the 'my interpretation' is simply different than 'your interpretation'. How many ways can 'thou shalt not commit adultery' Be interpreted ?
So it's // universe, then galaxies , then solar systems // The Milky Way is one of the galaxies. And the earth is one of 9 or so planets in orbit around the sun / our solar system. You Did go on to explain more -- I guess I really don't understand How anyone can know all of that. I know -- it's all the light-year 'stuff' which goes way over my head. But how does anyone really know what all is really out there. And, yes, we Do have the huge telescope -- but Still. Okay -- God put whatever is out there, There. He created it -- so it Is there.
And with so much 'out there' -- we may or may Not be the only living people. And, no, I don't consider amoeba or whatever else is considered 'life' to be a fore runner to People. But it Is a fascinating idea that there Could Be other people existing someplace else. God created them, too.

RickD wrote:Crochet,

In your opinion, were the first 3 creation days 24 hours long?

Bumpety bump.

hughfarey wrote:The earth's rotation has been slowing more or less since its creation. Its first days were probably about 20 hours long...

That has been used as a way of dating certain fossils that show daily as well as annual growth rings.

hugh -- the article was talking in milliseconds of time over time. -- yes, I did click into it. Interesting reading.

RickD. -- those 1st 3 days -- if they were 24 hrs also. There has Always been speculation about the 1st two verses. That If God really created from nothing, then why does it say that the earth was without form and was void. That the Spirit was hovering over the expanse. That's where a Gap theory enters the picture. That when the war in heaven took place that it made a disaster of the earth as well and God started over. There Was a war and Lucifer Was thrown out with lots of other angels / the fallen angels. Part of that was Lucifer becoming satan.
And that's Also where a 'previous world' comes into the mix.
To answer your question -- I believe they were the 24 hrs just like the rest of the days.
I believe it's important to give God the power and authority as The Creator. Is He truly powerful enough to Do That or isn't He. It has to do with the attitude a person has About / Towards God. Who Is God ? What place do we give Him in our lives. It's philosophical and scientific and spiritual. And the 1st and 3rd are probably the same.

crochet1949 wrote:hugh -- the article was talking in milliseconds of time over time. -- yes, I did click into it. Interesting reading.

RickD. -- those 1st 3 days -- if they were 24 hrs also. There has Always been speculation about the 1st two verses. That If God really created from nothing, then why does it say that the earth was without form and was void. That the Spirit was hovering over the expanse. That's where a Gap theory enters the picture. That when the war in heaven took place that it made a disaster of the earth as well and God started over. There Was a war and Lucifer Was thrown out with lots of other angels / the fallen angels. Part of that was Lucifer becoming satan.
And that's Also where a 'previous world' comes into the mix.
To answer your question -- I believe they were the 24 hrs just like the rest of the days.
I believe it's important to give God the power and authority as The Creator. Is He truly powerful enough to Do That or isn't He. It has to do with the attitude a person has About / Towards God. Who Is God ? What place do we give Him in our lives. It's philosophical and scientific and spiritual. And the 1st and 3rd are probably the same.

Ok. If the first 3 creation days were 24 hours, I have two questions:

1) why do you believe the first 3 creation days were 24 hours. In other words, what makes a "day" 24 hours long?

And

2) when, according to scripture, do you believe the sun was created?
Genesis 1:14-19 nasb

14Then God said, “Let there be lights in the [t]expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the [v]expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 God made the two [w]great lights, the greater [x]light [y]to govern the day, and the lesser [z]light [aa]to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the [ab]expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and [ac]to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

I think I see where you're going, Rick. Can I add a question? When light was separated from dark on Day One, was it dark in Australia when it was light in Norway, and vice versa?