Evidence for God from Science

crochet1949 wrote:

RickD wrote:

jenna wrote:

RickD wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:no, i have not admitted that i am not a Christian, sorry.

Of course you did. You said that you believe Christ is not God.

That's an essential Christian belief.

Debating beliefs within Christianity, with someone who isn't a Christian, is fruitless.

tell me, what are the "essential" Christian beliefs? is believing in the trinity one of them?

I would say the most essential belief is the deity of Christ. If one believes in a Christ that isn't God, one believes in a false Christ who cannot save.

As far as belief in the Trinity being an essential belief, I would say no, not necessarily. It depends on one's Christology.

"I would say that the most essential belief is the deity of Christ...." -- yes, that means that Christ was/is the Son of God.
The Son of God, Jesus Christ, being the 2nd person / part of the Godhead / trinity.

The Godhead is what makes our salvation Possible. And the Holy Spirit is very much in the Godhead. It was the Holy Spirit who came upon Mary and she conceived the Christ child / the virgin birth. And the Holy Spirit comes to indwell the person who accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. The person believes in their heart and then with their mouth, they confess the Lord Jesus. The Holy Spirit indwells the person / stays with the person until they are with Christ. The sealing power of the Holy Spirit. The person is therefore eternally secure until they are with Christ. And one of the roles Of the Holy Spirit is that of convicting the person of their sins.

So - we have God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit. The Godhead / Trinity.

A person might not be Aware of the Godhead - trinity -- but it would be important for them to understand what's happening and that involves knowledge of those roles.

to me this ignores the role of the Body of Christ, and basically denies that you are the Body of Christ, and have the Comforter, right now, which with all due respect i can quote you "confessing with your mouth" in other places, ok? "I see (this as) degeneration," etc.

Which i don't want you to take wrong, ok, we are just talking, about a thorny concept; but you might reflect upon how this is a denial of God, and "all things work together for good," and a tacit approval of wars, believe it or not, "the war on poverty" or "drugs," when the fruit of these wars is manifest, and plain to see.

jenna wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

jenna wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

RickD wrote: I would say the most essential belief is the deity of Christ. If one believes in a Christ that isn't God, one believes in a false Christ who cannot save.

As far as belief in the Trinity being an essential belief, I would say no, not necessarily. It depends on one's Christology.

well Rick, which is it?

he answered you already

yes, but note that i say "Jesus is not God," and i am accused of believing that Christ is not God, and then we are told to accept that "Trinity is optional," somehow, after these "ground rules" have been laid. I am no longer free to accept what Scripture plainly tells me, and Jesus verified, in many places, that being that He was a Son of Man, and that God is the Head of Christ. This is no longer acceptable, see, i am now "not a christian," but "the Trinity is not an essential belief."

So, which is it?

so in other words, you do not believe that Jesus and Christ are the same? if this is so, then explain the difference (in words we can understand please?)

Ah, sorry if i am so often unclear, hmm. You are asking me to explain a mystery, that imo needs no further explanation than "God is the Head of Christ" (ergo, not the Body), and "Jesus is a Son of Man," wherein it might be understood that "Why do you call Me good?" is answered from Jesus, and accepting Thomas' (the Doubter, with no other Witness, there or anywhere else? c'mon) "worship"--ie assuming that Thomas used the word "God" as we understand it, when he clearly did not--is coming from the now resurrected Christ, and Thomas the Doubter could easily have been pledging allegiance to Christ, when the word for "God" used there is understood to include you, also. Yes, that exact same word could apply to any person who is a "lord," in the physical sense.


Another pov would be that you are the Body of Christ, which is easy to say but as we see also easy to deny in spirit, when you "confess with your mouth" something else, and if you are the Body of Christ, as i can assure you that you are, then where is Jesus, in that model? Jesus is the bread, broken for you, and you are being called to worship bread? (which of course we also do, coming up with "transubstantiation" nonsense to ease, and then finally dismiss, that we are to "eat His Body, and drink His blood" in a spiritual sense, and immerse ourselves spiritually in Christ).

See, if Jesus is the Body of Christ, you by definition are dismissed from the Body of Christ. So then, Christ is yanked out of "now" in that way. Then, you are called to wait for Christ, until "tomorrow," for your life to begin, until the Rapture, just to make sure that you don't go witnessing for Christ like God wants, and you are then limited to proselytizing new members into your belief system, and dismissed from picking up your cross to follow Christ, which is turned into proselytizing for Jesus. etc.

bbyrd009 wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:

RickD wrote:

jenna wrote:

RickD wrote: Of course you did. You said that you believe Christ is not God.

That's an essential Christian belief.

Debating beliefs within Christianity, with someone who isn't a Christian, is fruitless.

tell me, what are the "essential" Christian beliefs? is believing in the trinity one of them?

I would say the most essential belief is the deity of Christ. If one believes in a Christ that isn't God, one believes in a false Christ who cannot save.

As far as belief in the Trinity being an essential belief, I would say no, not necessarily. It depends on one's Christology.

"I would say that the most essential belief is the deity of Christ...." -- yes, that means that Christ was/is the Son of God.
The Son of God, Jesus Christ, being the 2nd person / part of the Godhead / trinity.

The Godhead is what makes our salvation Possible. And the Holy Spirit is very much in the Godhead. It was the Holy Spirit who came upon Mary and she conceived the Christ child / the virgin birth. And the Holy Spirit comes to indwell the person who accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. The person believes in their heart and then with their mouth, they confess the Lord Jesus. The Holy Spirit indwells the person / stays with the person until they are with Christ. The sealing power of the Holy Spirit. The person is therefore eternally secure until they are with Christ. And one of the roles Of the Holy Spirit is that of convicting the person of their sins.

So - we have God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit. The Godhead / Trinity.

A person might not be Aware of the Godhead - trinity -- but it would be important for them to understand what's happening and that involves knowledge of those roles.

to me this ignores the role of the Body of Christ, and basically denies that you are the Body of Christ, and have the Comforter, right now, which with all due respect i can quote you "confessing with your mouth" in other places, ok? "I see (this as) degeneration," etc.

Which i don't want you to take wrong, ok, we are just talking, about a thorny concept; but you might reflect upon how this is a denial of God, and "all things work together for good," and a tacit approval of wars, believe it or not, "the war on poverty" or "drugs," when the fruit of these wars is manifest, and plain to see.

A person Becomes part of the Body of Christ when they accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior.

The 'thorny concept' as you refer to -- is basic salvation. It's Very important concepts that we are 'just talking about.'

NEVER try to argue logic with a person who doesn't apparently understand its basics. Cause they can't see it, even if one makes it perfectly clear to them.



I suggest every new bit of nonsense spewed by BB, just answer with this gif!

crochet1949 wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:

RickD wrote:

jenna wrote: tell me, what are the "essential" Christian beliefs? is believing in the trinity one of them?

I would say the most essential belief is the deity of Christ. If one believes in a Christ that isn't God, one believes in a false Christ who cannot save.

As far as belief in the Trinity being an essential belief, I would say no, not necessarily. It depends on one's Christology.

"I would say that the most essential belief is the deity of Christ...." -- yes, that means that Christ was/is the Son of God.
The Son of God, Jesus Christ, being the 2nd person / part of the Godhead / trinity.

The Godhead is what makes our salvation Possible. And the Holy Spirit is very much in the Godhead. It was the Holy Spirit who came upon Mary and she conceived the Christ child / the virgin birth. And the Holy Spirit comes to indwell the person who accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. The person believes in their heart and then with their mouth, they confess the Lord Jesus. The Holy Spirit indwells the person / stays with the person until they are with Christ. The sealing power of the Holy Spirit. The person is therefore eternally secure until they are with Christ. And one of the roles Of the Holy Spirit is that of convicting the person of their sins.

So - we have God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit. The Godhead / Trinity.

A person might not be Aware of the Godhead - trinity -- but it would be important for them to understand what's happening and that involves knowledge of those roles.

to me this ignores the role of the Body of Christ, and basically denies that you are the Body of Christ, and have the Comforter, right now, which with all due respect i can quote you "confessing with your mouth" in other places, ok? "I see (this as) degeneration," etc.

Which i don't want you to take wrong, ok, we are just talking, about a thorny concept; but you might reflect upon how this is a denial of God, and "all things work together for good," and a tacit approval of wars, believe it or not, "the war on poverty" or "drugs," when the fruit of these wars is manifest, and plain to see.

A person Becomes part of the Body of Christ when they accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior.

...and then, according to many at least, accepts that Jesus is also bodily coming back in a Rapture to save them, from their snakebit state. Please understand. Your public confession will not save you, and your church is plainly described in the passage ending "away from Me, you evildoers, I never knew you," if you but go and read them both, as they are intentionally, slightly different. But of course every descriptive used in the passage has an analogy to our churches, and we are plainly warned elsewhere of the blind leading the blind, which we dismiss as applying to others, despite the Scriptures assuring us that these are not even considered, discussed, or talked to or at in the Bible. The Bible is all about, and only cares about, those who are "called by His Name," and the rest are considered "the sea."

So when you read a passage about some evil guy doing whatever, Goliath, even, this has a direct bearing upon you, who is able to slay the child with the adult, is one way of putting it.

Philip wrote:NEVER try to argue logic with a person who doesn't apparently understand its basics. Cause they can't see it, even if one makes it perfectly clear to them.



I suggest every new bit of nonsense spewed by BB, just answer with this gif!

well, of course, that is the whole point of the Trinity doctrine, to exclude people calling you back to the Body of Christ, right now, and suggesting that you can find Word, today. Because you cannot argue from the Book, with all due respect, and after all, your Mansion in the Sky is now being threatened.

I'm curious; did you, at any time, give the people who convinced you of these doctrines any money?

it is a fair question.

bbyrd009 wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:

RickD wrote: I would say the most essential belief is the deity of Christ. If one believes in a Christ that isn't God, one believes in a false Christ who cannot save.

As far as belief in the Trinity being an essential belief, I would say no, not necessarily. It depends on one's Christology.

"I would say that the most essential belief is the deity of Christ...." -- yes, that means that Christ was/is the Son of God.
The Son of God, Jesus Christ, being the 2nd person / part of the Godhead / trinity.

The Godhead is what makes our salvation Possible. And the Holy Spirit is very much in the Godhead. It was the Holy Spirit who came upon Mary and she conceived the Christ child / the virgin birth. And the Holy Spirit comes to indwell the person who accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. The person believes in their heart and then with their mouth, they confess the Lord Jesus. The Holy Spirit indwells the person / stays with the person until they are with Christ. The sealing power of the Holy Spirit. The person is therefore eternally secure until they are with Christ. And one of the roles Of the Holy Spirit is that of convicting the person of their sins.

So - we have God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit. The Godhead / Trinity.

A person might not be Aware of the Godhead - trinity -- but it would be important for them to understand what's happening and that involves knowledge of those roles.

to me this ignores the role of the Body of Christ, and basically denies that you are the Body of Christ, and have the Comforter, right now, which with all due respect i can quote you "confessing with your mouth" in other places, ok? "I see (this as) degeneration," etc.

Which i don't want you to take wrong, ok, we are just talking, about a thorny concept; but you might reflect upon how this is a denial of God, and "all things work together for good," and a tacit approval of wars, believe it or not, "the war on poverty" or "drugs," when the fruit of these wars is manifest, and plain to see.

A person Becomes part of the Body of Christ when they accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior.

...and then, according to many at least, accepts that Jesus is also bodily coming back in a Rapture to save them, from their snakebit state. Please understand. Your public confession will not save you, and your church is plainly described in the passage ending "away from Me, you evildoers, I never knew you," if you but go and read them both, as they are intentionally, slightly different. But of course every descriptive used in the passage has an analogy to our churches, and we are plainly warned elsewhere of the blind leading the blind, which we dismiss as applying to others, despite the Scriptures assuring us that these are not even considered, discussed, or talked to or at in the Bible. The Bible is all about, and only cares about, those who are "called by His Name," and the rest are considered "the sea."

So when you read a passage about some evil guy doing whatever, Goliath, even, this has a direct bearing upon you, who is able to slay the child with the adult, is one way of putting it.

and please don't get me wrong here. I have no comment to make upon the souls in that church, and God judges the heart. Pure-hearted people are where you find them, and it might just as easily be in the worst of one of these churches, ok. All is vanity, in this sense. You can live for Christ right where you are at.

Philip wrote:NEVER try to argue logic with a person who doesn't apparently understand its basics. Cause they can't see it, even if one makes it perfectly clear to them.



I suggest every new bit of nonsense spewed by BB, just answer with this gif!

see here that i am now accused of "not understanding the basics," when i was proselytizing for Jesus 40 years ago, ok."I can't see it," and "i need you to make something perfectly clear to me," and "i am spewing nonsense," only you cannot quote any Scripture to condemn me, and i serve a Risen Lord, but even though i call you "accepted," i am condemned.

You have condemned me without Witnesses, as surely as Christ is condemned, and replaced with Nehushtan worship. So then, you are throwing stones at me, when you might just accept that you are not done changing yet, and consider allowing more Scripture to be relevant to your life, right now.

Philip wrote:

I agree wholeheartedly. I have tried to get clear answers, but havent been able to understand anything. so i give up

bbyrd009 wrote:

Philip wrote:NEVER try to argue logic with a person who doesn't apparently understand its basics. Cause they can't see it, even if one makes it perfectly clear to them.



I suggest every new bit of nonsense spewed by BB, just answer with this gif!

see here that i am now accused of "not understanding the basics," when i was proselytizing for Jesus 40 years ago, ok."I can't see it," and "i need you to make something perfectly clear to me," and "i am spewing nonsense," only you cannot quote any Scripture to condemn me, and i serve a Risen Lord, but even though i call you "accepted," i am condemned.

You have condemned me without Witnesses, as surely as Christ is condemned, and replaced with Nehushtan worship. So then, you are throwing stones at me, when you might just accept that you are not done changing yet, and consider allowing more Scripture to be relevant to your life, right now.

bbyrd009 wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:

"I would say that the most essential belief is the deity of Christ...." -- yes, that means that Christ was/is the Son of God.
The Son of God, Jesus Christ, being the 2nd person / part of the Godhead / trinity.

The Godhead is what makes our salvation Possible. And the Holy Spirit is very much in the Godhead. It was the Holy Spirit who came upon Mary and she conceived the Christ child / the virgin birth. And the Holy Spirit comes to indwell the person who accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. The person believes in their heart and then with their mouth, they confess the Lord Jesus. The Holy Spirit indwells the person / stays with the person until they are with Christ. The sealing power of the Holy Spirit. The person is therefore eternally secure until they are with Christ. And one of the roles Of the Holy Spirit is that of convicting the person of their sins.

So - we have God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit. The Godhead / Trinity.

A person might not be Aware of the Godhead - trinity -- but it would be important for them to understand what's happening and that involves knowledge of those roles.

to me this ignores the role of the Body of Christ, and basically denies that you are the Body of Christ, and have the Comforter, right now, which with all due respect i can quote you "confessing with your mouth" in other places, ok? "I see (this as) degeneration," etc.

Which i don't want you to take wrong, ok, we are just talking, about a thorny concept; but you might reflect upon how this is a denial of God, and "all things work together for good," and a tacit approval of wars, believe it or not, "the war on poverty" or "drugs," when the fruit of these wars is manifest, and plain to see.

A person Becomes part of the Body of Christ when they accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior.

...and then, according to many at least, accepts that Jesus is also bodily coming back in a Rapture to save them, from their snakebit state. Please understand. Your public confession will not save you, and your church is plainly described in the passage ending "away from Me, you evildoers, I never knew you," if you but go and read them both, as they are intentionally, slightly different. But of course every descriptive used in the passage has an analogy to our churches, and we are plainly warned elsewhere of the blind leading the blind, which we dismiss as applying to others, despite the Scriptures assuring us that these are not even considered, discussed, or talked to or at in the Bible. The Bible is all about, and only cares about, those who are "called by His Name," and the rest are considered "the sea."

So when you read a passage about some evil guy doing whatever, Goliath, even, this has a direct bearing upon you, who is able to slay the child with the adult, is one way of putting it.

and please don't get me wrong here. I have no comment to make upon the souls in that church, and God judges the heart. Pure-hearted people are where you find them, and it might just as easily be in the worst of one of these churches, ok. All is vanity, in this sense. You can live for Christ right where you are at.

bbyrd009 wrote:

Philip wrote:NEVER try to argue logic with a person who doesn't apparently understand its basics. Cause they can't see it, even if one makes it perfectly clear to them.



I suggest every new bit of nonsense spewed by BB, just answer with this gif!

well, of course, that is the whole point of the Trinity doctrine, to exclude people calling you back to the Body of Christ, right now, and suggesting that you can find Word, today. Because you cannot argue from the Book, with all due respect, and after all, your Mansion in the Sky is now being threatened.

I'm curious; did you, at any time, give the people who convinced you of these doctrines any money?

it is a fair question.

RickD wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

Philip wrote:NEVER try to argue logic with a person who doesn't apparently understand its basics. Cause they can't see it, even if one makes it perfectly clear to them.



I suggest every new bit of nonsense spewed by BB, just answer with this gif!

well, of course, that is the whole point of the Trinity doctrine, to exclude people calling you back to the Body of Christ, right now, and suggesting that you can find Word, today. Because you cannot argue from the Book, with all due respect, and after all, your Mansion in the Sky is now being threatened.

I'm curious; did you, at any time, give the people who convinced you of these doctrines any money?

it is a fair question.

this just made my day!!

Merry Christmas to everyone, tomorrow.