God's Ten Commandments? Still valid?

[neo-x]

It's really sad that You'd go to any lengths just to justify that one sabbath. Reminds me of what churches can do to people.

[BavarianWheels]

Plus it starts with, hear O Isreal...lol. If that didn't make it clear to whom the law was addressed.

Are not all Christians "Israel"? Romans 11

Is not your Christ a Jew?
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[BavarianWheels]

It's really sad that You'd go to any lengths just to justify that one sabbath. Reminds me of what churches can do to people.

Me justify one Sabbath?

Let me remind you of God's words:

By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

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[neo-x]

Plus it starts with, hear O Isreal...lol. If that didn't make it clear to whom the law was addressed.

Are not all Christians "Israel"? Romans 11

Is not your Christ a Jew?

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Not the Israel of the ot to whom the law was given. Even as Paul says that Abraham's descendants are not Israel, in Christ. It is the congregation of believers. As I told you before church's can bore doctrine into someone's bones so much so that its impossible for them to see things differently.

[DBowling]

So again, show me wherein the 10 exists the "covenant"? You're the one making the claim.

Actually Moses makes the claim... but here we go...

Exodus 19-24 describes the covenant that YHWH made with his covenant people Israel at Sinai. And the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20:1-17 are part of the covenant that God establishes with Israel.
Here is how the stage is set in Exodus 19:3-6

3 Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob and tell the sons of Israel: 4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself. 5 Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine; 6 and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel.

We see two important things in Exodus 19
1. In Exodus 19:5 God explicitly refers to the contents of Exodus 19-24 as a "covenant".
2. In Exodus 19:3 God tells us that the covenant is with "the sons of Israel"

After Moses receives the commands in Exodus 20-23 from YHWH, the narrative continues in Exodus 24
Exodus 24:3-7

3 Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and all the people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do!” 4 Moses wrote down all the words of the Lord. Then he arose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain with twelve pillars for the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 He sent young men of the sons of Israel, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls as peace offerings to the Lord. 6 Moses took half of the blood and put it in basins, and the other half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. 7 Then he took the book of the covenant and read it in the hearing of the people; and they said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient!” 8 So Moses took the blood and sprinkled it on the people, and said, “Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.”

When he returns to the people, Moses writes down the commands that he received from God in Exodus 20-23 (which includes the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20).
Then he takes the "book of the covenant" which he had written down and reads it to the people.
The people of Israel agree to obey God's commands, and Moses ratifies the covenant between YWHW and the people of Israel by sprinkling the people with "the blood of the covenant".

So Exodus 19-24 explicitly states that the 10 Commandments are part of a Covenant that YHWH established between himself and his covenant people Israel.

Uh...no. Moses didn't need to, nor did he rewrite the 10 commandments as they were already written in stone.

You need to read Exodus again.
(which I did myself before I made this post to make sure I had my facts correct)

In Exodus 24:4 Moses initially writes down the commands that God game him in Exodus 20-23. Then Moses reads that "book of the covenant" in Exodus 24:7 to Israel. It isn't until later that God writes those commands in stone.

It's all there in the verses of Exodus 24 that I quote above.

Your disagreement on this particular issue is with Moses, not with me.

[neo-x]

It's really sad that You'd go to any lengths just to justify that one sabbath. Reminds me of what churches can do to people.

Me justify one Sabbath?

Let me remind you of God's words:

By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

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The sabbath can't be eternal. Ever!

[BavarianWheels]

It's really sad that You'd go to any lengths just to justify that one sabbath. Reminds me of what churches can do to people.

Me justify one Sabbath?

Let me remind you of God's words:

By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

.
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The sabbath can't be eternal. Ever!

Why is it you think so?
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[BavarianWheels]

So again, show me wherein the 10 exists the "covenant"? You're the one making the claim.

Actually Moses makes the claim... but here we go...

Exodus 19-24 describes the covenant that YHWH made with his covenant people Israel at Sinai. And the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20:1-17 are part of the covenant that God establishes with Israel.
Here is how the stage is set in Exodus 19:3-6

3 Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob and tell the sons of Israel: 4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself. 5 Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine; 6 and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel.

We see two important things in Exodus 19
1. In Exodus 19:5 God explicitly refers to the contents of Exodus 19-24 as a "covenant".
2. In Exodus 19:3 God tells us that the covenant is with "the sons of Israel"

After Moses receives the commands in Exodus 20-23 from YHWH, the narrative continues in Exodus 24
Exodus 24:3-7

3 Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and all the people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do!” 4 Moses wrote down all the words of the Lord. Then he arose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain with twelve pillars for the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 He sent young men of the sons of Israel, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls as peace offerings to the Lord. 6 Moses took half of the blood and put it in basins, and the other half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. 7 Then he took the book of the covenant and read it in the hearing of the people; and they said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient!” 8 So Moses took the blood and sprinkled it on the people, and said, “Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.”

When he returns to the people, Moses writes down the commands that he received from God in Exodus 20-23 (which includes the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20).
Then he takes the "book of the covenant" which he had written down and reads it to the people.
The people of Israel agree to obey God's commands, and Moses ratifies the covenant between YWHW and the people of Israel by sprinkling the people with "the blood of the covenant".

So Exodus 19-24 explicitly states that the 10 Commandments are part of a Covenant that YHWH established between himself and his covenant people Israel.

Uh...no. Moses didn't need to, nor did he rewrite the 10 commandments as they were already written in stone.

You need to read Exodus again.
(which I did myself before I made this post to make sure I had my facts correct)

In Exodus 24:4 Moses initially writes down the commands that God game him in Exodus 20-23. Then Moses reads that "book of the covenant" in Exodus 24:7 to Israel. It isn't until later that God writes those commands in stone.

It's all there in the verses of Exodus 24 that I quote above.

Your disagreement on this particular issue is with Moses, not with me.

I don't disagree with Moses. I disagree with how you interpret God's words and God's action.

The fact here is that God DID write ONLY the 10 in stone...which being in stone has meaning...then later in our heart which also has meaning. Being in stone, they are perpetual. Being written on our hearts, they are perpetual and our desire.

The 10 will always point at sin. That is perpetual.

The ceremonial will not always be a promise, but the promise fulfilled IS Jesus Christ. He is our salvation and the laws that pointed to Him are needed no more. Those are nailed to the cross...never to be followed again!
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[BavarianWheels]

Plus it starts with, hear O Isreal...lol. If that didn't make it clear to whom the law was addressed.

Are not all Christians "Israel"? Romans 11

Is not your Christ a Jew?

.

Not the Israel of the ot to whom the law was given. Even as Paul says that Abraham's descendants are not Israel, in Christ. It is the congregation of believers. As I told you before church's can bore doctrine into someone's bones so much so that its impossible for them to see things differently.

...and what are you seeing "differently"? Seems to me you're part of the "tide"...and not of anything "different".
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.

[DBowling]

So again, show me wherein the 10 exists the "covenant"? You're the one making the claim.

Actually Moses makes the claim... but here we go...

Exodus 19-24 describes the covenant that YHWH made with his covenant people Israel at Sinai. And the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20:1-17 are part of the covenant that God establishes with Israel.
Here is how the stage is set in Exodus 19:3-6

3 Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob and tell the sons of Israel: 4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself. 5 Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine; 6 and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel.

We see two important things in Exodus 19
1. In Exodus 19:5 God explicitly refers to the contents of Exodus 19-24 as a "covenant".
2. In Exodus 19:3 God tells us that the covenant is with "the sons of Israel"

After Moses receives the commands in Exodus 20-23 from YHWH, the narrative continues in Exodus 24
Exodus 24:3-7

3 Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and all the people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do!” 4 Moses wrote down all the words of the Lord. Then he arose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain with twelve pillars for the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 He sent young men of the sons of Israel, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls as peace offerings to the Lord. 6 Moses took half of the blood and put it in basins, and the other half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. 7 Then he took the book of the covenant and read it in the hearing of the people; and they said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient!” 8 So Moses took the blood and sprinkled it on the people, and said, “Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.”

When he returns to the people, Moses writes down the commands that he received from God in Exodus 20-23 (which includes the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20).
Then he takes the "book of the covenant" which he had written down and reads it to the people.
The people of Israel agree to obey God's commands, and Moses ratifies the covenant between YWHW and the people of Israel by sprinkling the people with "the blood of the covenant".

So Exodus 19-24 explicitly states that the 10 Commandments are part of a Covenant that YHWH established between himself and his covenant people Israel.

Uh...no. Moses didn't need to, nor did he rewrite the 10 commandments as they were already written in stone.

You need to read Exodus again.
(which I did myself before I made this post to make sure I had my facts correct)

In Exodus 24:4 Moses initially writes down the commands that God game him in Exodus 20-23. Then Moses reads that "book of the covenant" in Exodus 24:7 to Israel. It isn't until later that God writes those commands in stone.

It's all there in the verses of Exodus 24 that I quote above.

Your disagreement on this particular issue is with Moses, not with me.

I don't disagree with Moses.

Sure you do...
I showed you where in Scripture (Exodus 24:4) Moses writes down the commands that he was given in Exodus 20-23, which includes the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20.

You assert, without Scriptural support that, either Exodus 24:4 didn't happen or that God wrote the 10 Commandments on stone before Exodus 24:4... which is also unsupported by Scripture.

All you have to do to support your assertion is show where God writes the 10 Commandments on stone prior to when Moses wrote them in Exodus 24:4.
The problem is you can't... because your assertion is not supported by Scripture.

[BavarianWheels]

I don't disagree with Moses.

Sure you do...
I showed you where in Scripture (Exodus 24:4) Moses writes down the commands that he was given in Exodus 20-23, which includes the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20.

You assert, without Scriptural support that, either Exodus 24:4 didn't happen or that God wrote the 10 Commandments on stone before Exodus 24:4... which is also unsupported by Scripture.

All you have to do to support your assertion is show where God writes the 10 Commandments on stone prior to when Moses wrote them in Exodus 24:4.
The problem is you can't... because your assertion is not supported by Scripture.

So what you're saying here is that Moses' written words trumps God's written words because Moses wrote them first?

Really?
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[DBowling]

I don't disagree with Moses.

Sure you do...
I showed you where in Scripture (Exodus 24:4) Moses writes down the commands that he was given in Exodus 20-23, which includes the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20.

You assert, without Scriptural support that, either Exodus 24:4 didn't happen or that God wrote the 10 Commandments on stone before Exodus 24:4... which is also unsupported by Scripture.

All you have to do to support your assertion is show where God writes the 10 Commandments on stone prior to when Moses wrote them in Exodus 24:4.
The problem is you can't... because your assertion is not supported by Scripture.

So what you're saying here is that Moses' written words trumps God's written words because Moses wrote them first?

Your strawmen are really getting silly here..

I am saying no such thing. God gave the 10 Commandments to Moses as part of the Covenant that he established with the House of Israel (Exodus 20-23).
God is the author of the 10 Commandments, and God is the author of the Covenant that he Made with the House of Israel.
The author of the 10 Commandments is YHWH.
The author of the Covenant that with Israel in Exodus 19-24 is also YHWH.

Just because Moses wrote them down before God wrote them in stone doesn't change who the author is.

Again, resorting to strawman arguments does nothing to help out your position.

[BavarianWheels]

Just because Moses wrote them down before God wrote them in stone doesn't change who the author is.

Again, resorting to strawman arguments does nothing to help out your position.

You're the one that made a distinction on when it was written!...twice!

Look:

In Exodus 24:4 Moses initially writes down the commands that God game him in Exodus 20-23. Then Moses reads that "book of the covenant" in Exodus 24:7 to Israel. It isn't until later that God writes those commands in stone.

It's all there in the verses of Exodus 24 that I quote above.

Your disagreement on this particular issue is with Moses, not with me.

You said plainly that I have issue with Moses! You're the one making the claim.

Then:

I showed you where in Scripture (Exodus 24:4) Moses writes down the commands that he was given in Exodus 20-23, which includes the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20.

You assert, without Scriptural support that, either Exodus 24:4 didn't happen or that God wrote the 10 Commandments on stone before Exodus 24:4... which is also unsupported by Scripture.

I told you that I have no issue with Moses, but with your interpretation and weight you put on Moses having written the 10 prior to God writing them in stone. ( which we can't be sure of anyway considering the manner in which Genesis and Exodus jump around in recounting of events...though I have no issue with Moses having written down God's words prior to God writing them in stone ).

So when I ask if you think that Moses having written them down first trumps God's writing, it's not a straw man that I'm building, but rather a question on a position YOU'VE BUILT all on your own!
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[DBowling]

I showed you where in Scripture (Exodus 24:4) Moses writes down the commands that he was given in Exodus 20-23, which includes the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20.

You assert, without Scriptural support that, either Exodus 24:4 didn't happen or that God wrote the 10 Commandments on stone before Exodus 24:4... which is also unsupported by Scripture.

I told you that I have no issue with Moses, but with your interpretation and weight you put on Moses having written the 10 prior to God writing them in stone. ( which we can't be sure of anyway considering the manner in which Genesis and Exodus jump around in recounting of events...though I have no issue with Moses having written down God's words prior to God writing them in stone ).

OK... I'll take that as close to agreement as we're going to get on this specific item...

Now... Back to what got us here...

You asked me to demonstrate where Scripture refers to the 10 Commandments as part of a Covenant.
I have demonstrated from Scripture (Exodus 19-24) that the 10 Commandments are part of the Covenant that YHWH established with the House of Israel on Sinai.

Are you willing to acknowledge that the 10 Commandments are part of the Covenant that YHWH established with the House of Israel on Sinai?
(Feel free to reread Exodus 19-24 before you answer)

[BavarianWheels]

Are you willing to acknowledge that the 10 Commandments are part of the Covenant that YHWH established with the House of Israel on Sinai?
(Feel free to reread Exodus 19-24 before you answer)

I have no issue that they ( the 10 ) are part of the covenant.

Are you willing to admit that they ( the 10 ) are not A covenant?
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