"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." (Psalm 19:1)
https://discussions.godandscience.org/
Me justify one Sabbath?
Genesis 2:2,3 NIV wrote:By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
.Exodus 20:8-11 NIV wrote:“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Not the Israel of the ot to whom the law was given. Even as Paul says that Abraham's descendants are not Israel, in Christ. It is the congregation of believers. As I told you before church's can bore doctrine into someone's bones so much so that its impossible for them to see things differently.BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:02 amAre not all Christians "Israel"? Romans 11
Is not your Christ a Jew?
.
You need to read Exodus again.BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:40 amUh...no. Moses didn't need to, nor did he rewrite the 10 commandments as they were already written in stone.DBowling wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:24 pmActually Moses makes the claim... but here we go...BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:50 am So again, show me wherein the 10 exists the "covenant"? You're the one making the claim.
Exodus 19-24 describes the covenant that YHWH made with his covenant people Israel at Sinai. And the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20:1-17 are part of the covenant that God establishes with Israel.
Here is how the stage is set in Exodus 19:3-6We see two important things in Exodus 193 Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob and tell the sons of Israel: 4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself. 5 Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine; 6 and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel.
1. In Exodus 19:5 God explicitly refers to the contents of Exodus 19-24 as a "covenant".
2. In Exodus 19:3 God tells us that the covenant is with "the sons of Israel"
After Moses receives the commands in Exodus 20-23 from YHWH, the narrative continues in Exodus 24
Exodus 24:3-7When he returns to the people, Moses writes down the commands that he received from God in Exodus 20-23 (which includes the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20).3 Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and all the people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do!” 4 Moses wrote down all the words of the Lord. Then he arose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain with twelve pillars for the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 He sent young men of the sons of Israel, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls as peace offerings to the Lord. 6 Moses took half of the blood and put it in basins, and the other half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. 7 Then he took the book of the covenant and read it in the hearing of the people; and they said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient!” 8 So Moses took the blood and sprinkled it on the people, and said, “Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.”
Then he takes the "book of the covenant" which he had written down and reads it to the people.
The people of Israel agree to obey God's commands, and Moses ratifies the covenant between YWHW and the people of Israel by sprinkling the people with "the blood of the covenant".
So Exodus 19-24 explicitly states that the 10 Commandments are part of a Covenant that YHWH established between himself and his covenant people Israel.
The sabbath can't be eternal. Ever!BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:04 amMe justify one Sabbath?
Let me remind you of God's words:
Genesis 2:2,3 NIV wrote:By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done..Exodus 20:8-11 NIV wrote:“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
.
Why is it you think so?neo-x wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:16 amThe sabbath can't be eternal. Ever!BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:04 amMe justify one Sabbath?
Let me remind you of God's words:
Genesis 2:2,3 NIV wrote:By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done..Exodus 20:8-11 NIV wrote:“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
.
I don't disagree with Moses. I disagree with how you interpret God's words and God's action.DBowling wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:11 amYou need to read Exodus again.BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:40 amUh...no. Moses didn't need to, nor did he rewrite the 10 commandments as they were already written in stone.DBowling wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:24 pmActually Moses makes the claim... but here we go...BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:50 am So again, show me wherein the 10 exists the "covenant"? You're the one making the claim.
Exodus 19-24 describes the covenant that YHWH made with his covenant people Israel at Sinai. And the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20:1-17 are part of the covenant that God establishes with Israel.
Here is how the stage is set in Exodus 19:3-6We see two important things in Exodus 193 Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob and tell the sons of Israel: 4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself. 5 Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine; 6 and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel.
1. In Exodus 19:5 God explicitly refers to the contents of Exodus 19-24 as a "covenant".
2. In Exodus 19:3 God tells us that the covenant is with "the sons of Israel"
After Moses receives the commands in Exodus 20-23 from YHWH, the narrative continues in Exodus 24
Exodus 24:3-7When he returns to the people, Moses writes down the commands that he received from God in Exodus 20-23 (which includes the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20).3 Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and all the people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do!” 4 Moses wrote down all the words of the Lord. Then he arose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain with twelve pillars for the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 He sent young men of the sons of Israel, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls as peace offerings to the Lord. 6 Moses took half of the blood and put it in basins, and the other half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. 7 Then he took the book of the covenant and read it in the hearing of the people; and they said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient!” 8 So Moses took the blood and sprinkled it on the people, and said, “Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.”
Then he takes the "book of the covenant" which he had written down and reads it to the people.
The people of Israel agree to obey God's commands, and Moses ratifies the covenant between YWHW and the people of Israel by sprinkling the people with "the blood of the covenant".
So Exodus 19-24 explicitly states that the 10 Commandments are part of a Covenant that YHWH established between himself and his covenant people Israel.
(which I did myself before I made this post to make sure I had my facts correct)
In Exodus 24:4 Moses initially writes down the commands that God game him in Exodus 20-23. Then Moses reads that "book of the covenant" in Exodus 24:7 to Israel. It isn't until later that God writes those commands in stone.
It's all there in the verses of Exodus 24 that I quote above.
Your disagreement on this particular issue is with Moses, not with me.
...and what are you seeing "differently"? Seems to me you're part of the "tide"...and not of anything "different".neo-x wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:09 amNot the Israel of the ot to whom the law was given. Even as Paul says that Abraham's descendants are not Israel, in Christ. It is the congregation of believers. As I told you before church's can bore doctrine into someone's bones so much so that its impossible for them to see things differently.BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:02 amAre not all Christians "Israel"? Romans 11
Is not your Christ a Jew?
.
Sure you do...BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:29 amI don't disagree with Moses.DBowling wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:11 amYou need to read Exodus again.BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:40 amUh...no. Moses didn't need to, nor did he rewrite the 10 commandments as they were already written in stone.DBowling wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:24 pmActually Moses makes the claim... but here we go...BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:50 am So again, show me wherein the 10 exists the "covenant"? You're the one making the claim.
Exodus 19-24 describes the covenant that YHWH made with his covenant people Israel at Sinai. And the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20:1-17 are part of the covenant that God establishes with Israel.
Here is how the stage is set in Exodus 19:3-6We see two important things in Exodus 193 Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob and tell the sons of Israel: 4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself. 5 Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine; 6 and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel.
1. In Exodus 19:5 God explicitly refers to the contents of Exodus 19-24 as a "covenant".
2. In Exodus 19:3 God tells us that the covenant is with "the sons of Israel"
After Moses receives the commands in Exodus 20-23 from YHWH, the narrative continues in Exodus 24
Exodus 24:3-7When he returns to the people, Moses writes down the commands that he received from God in Exodus 20-23 (which includes the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20).3 Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and all the people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do!” 4 Moses wrote down all the words of the Lord. Then he arose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain with twelve pillars for the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 He sent young men of the sons of Israel, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls as peace offerings to the Lord. 6 Moses took half of the blood and put it in basins, and the other half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. 7 Then he took the book of the covenant and read it in the hearing of the people; and they said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient!” 8 So Moses took the blood and sprinkled it on the people, and said, “Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.”
Then he takes the "book of the covenant" which he had written down and reads it to the people.
The people of Israel agree to obey God's commands, and Moses ratifies the covenant between YWHW and the people of Israel by sprinkling the people with "the blood of the covenant".
So Exodus 19-24 explicitly states that the 10 Commandments are part of a Covenant that YHWH established between himself and his covenant people Israel.
(which I did myself before I made this post to make sure I had my facts correct)
In Exodus 24:4 Moses initially writes down the commands that God game him in Exodus 20-23. Then Moses reads that "book of the covenant" in Exodus 24:7 to Israel. It isn't until later that God writes those commands in stone.
It's all there in the verses of Exodus 24 that I quote above.
Your disagreement on this particular issue is with Moses, not with me.
So what you're saying here is that Moses' written words trumps God's written words because Moses wrote them first?DBowling wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:41 amSure you do...
I showed you where in Scripture (Exodus 24:4) Moses writes down the commands that he was given in Exodus 20-23, which includes the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20.
You assert, without Scriptural support that, either Exodus 24:4 didn't happen or that God wrote the 10 Commandments on stone before Exodus 24:4... which is also unsupported by Scripture.
All you have to do to support your assertion is show where God writes the 10 Commandments on stone prior to when Moses wrote them in Exodus 24:4.
The problem is you can't... because your assertion is not supported by Scripture.
Your strawmen are really getting silly here..BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:49 amSo what you're saying here is that Moses' written words trumps God's written words because Moses wrote them first?DBowling wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:41 amSure you do...
I showed you where in Scripture (Exodus 24:4) Moses writes down the commands that he was given in Exodus 20-23, which includes the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20.
You assert, without Scriptural support that, either Exodus 24:4 didn't happen or that God wrote the 10 Commandments on stone before Exodus 24:4... which is also unsupported by Scripture.
All you have to do to support your assertion is show where God writes the 10 Commandments on stone prior to when Moses wrote them in Exodus 24:4.
The problem is you can't... because your assertion is not supported by Scripture.
You're the one that made a distinction on when it was written!...twice!
You said plainly that I have issue with Moses! You're the one making the claim.DBowling wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:11 am In Exodus 24:4 Moses initially writes down the commands that God game him in Exodus 20-23. Then Moses reads that "book of the covenant" in Exodus 24:7 to Israel. It isn't until later that God writes those commands in stone.
It's all there in the verses of Exodus 24 that I quote above.
Your disagreement on this particular issue is with Moses, not with me.
I told you that I have no issue with Moses, but with your interpretation and weight you put on Moses having written the 10 prior to God writing them in stone. ( which we can't be sure of anyway considering the manner in which Genesis and Exodus jump around in recounting of events...though I have no issue with Moses having written down God's words prior to God writing them in stone ).DBowling wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:41 am I showed you where in Scripture (Exodus 24:4) Moses writes down the commands that he was given in Exodus 20-23, which includes the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20.
You assert, without Scriptural support that, either Exodus 24:4 didn't happen or that God wrote the 10 Commandments on stone before Exodus 24:4... which is also unsupported by Scripture.
OK... I'll take that as close to agreement as we're going to get on this specific item...BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:19 amI told you that I have no issue with Moses, but with your interpretation and weight you put on Moses having written the 10 prior to God writing them in stone. ( which we can't be sure of anyway considering the manner in which Genesis and Exodus jump around in recounting of events...though I have no issue with Moses having written down God's words prior to God writing them in stone ).DBowling wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:41 am I showed you where in Scripture (Exodus 24:4) Moses writes down the commands that he was given in Exodus 20-23, which includes the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20.
You assert, without Scriptural support that, either Exodus 24:4 didn't happen or that God wrote the 10 Commandments on stone before Exodus 24:4... which is also unsupported by Scripture.
I have no issue that they ( the 10 ) are part of the covenant.