Convinced yet?

[edwardmurphy]

It's definitely easier to see what crooked Hillary is doing, than trying to decipher what Trump did or didn't do.

Of course it is. She's not doing anything, apart from making the occasional Tweet. She retired three years ago. Trump, meanwhile, is pure, deliberate, nonstop chaos. He's exhausting.

If I'm being honest, It all gives me a headache thinking about it.

Yeah, me too, but we've got to try.

So, like I said before, if Trump or anyone else, did anything illegal, and someone can prove it in the proper way, he/they deserve whatever they get.

So do you think that Trump did something illegal? If not then what would it take to convince you?

For example, the Mueller Report laid out 10 instances of obstruction of justice and then something like 1,000 former federal prosecutors who served under both Democratic and Republican attorneys general wrote an open letter stating that anyone other than a sitting president would have been charged with obstruction.

Is that evidence of wrongdoing? Does it merit further investigation?

In another example, a whistleblower reported that Trump had improperly withheld funds appropriated to Ukraine until the Ukrainian government publicly announced an investigation of Joe Biden and his hapless son. The ICIG found that the report had merit, and since that point the information in the report has been confirmed several times. The Trump Administration released a rough transcript confirming what was in the call, a diplomat turned in some text conversations supporting the suspicion of a quid pro quo, the Acting White House Chief of Staff went on TV and confirmed a quid pro quo (then told us to get over it), and 4-5 other ambassadors and career diplomats have testified that there have been all sorts of shady dealings and that Rudy Giuliani has been running a shadow foreign policy in the Ukraine. Two Giuliani associates have been arrested and charged with campaign finance violations. Trump says that he doesn't know them, but a ton of pictures have surfaced with the gentlemen in question hanging out with Trump and various members of his family at various places, strongly implying that the Trumps know the guys. Rudy is also reported to be under criminal investigation, and John Bolton is reported to have said that he (Rudy) was a hand grenade that was going to blow them all up. Be interesting to hear what Bolton meant by that.

Does all of that add up to evidence of wrongdoing? Does it merit further investigation?

If it turns out to be true then should the House impeach? Should the Senate convict?

If the House impeached, a strong case was made for conviction in the Senate, and then the GOP balked for fear of offending Trump's base how would you feel about that? Would you vote for Trump again?

If you had to brave the headache and think about this stuff where would you land?

[RickD]

Ed wrote:


Of course it is. She's not doing anything, apart from making the occasional Tweet. She retired three years ago. Trump, meanwhile, is pure, deliberate, nonstop chaos. He's exhausting.

Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) can be a serious issue. You may want to get that checked by a doctor.

Look, I'm starting to sound like a broken record.
If he can be shown to have done something illegal or impeachable, and it is proven through proper channels, then he deserves what he gets.

I have no problem when someone is held accountable for his/her actions.

[edwardmurphy]

Got it.

I have TDS because I trust a report released by a registered Republican former FBI Director that outlines 10 instances of obstruction of justice. Only lunatic would care about something like that.

I have TDS because I believed my own eyes when I read a transcript of a call in which Trump went full, obvious gangster and tried to use Congressionally allocated aid money to leverage an investigation into a political opponent. It's outright crazy to accept compelling evidence.

Meantime, you know with complete certainty that Hillary Clinton is crooked, even though she's been the subject of more GOP led investigations than anyone I can think of and she's never been charged with a crime. HRCDS plainly isn't a thing.

So yes, Rick, I'm the one who's deranged.

And you still haven't answered the question. If none of the above meets your standard for evidence of wrongdoing then what would it take?

[DBowling]

If he can be shown to have done something illegal or impeachable, and it is proven through proper channels, then he deserves what he gets.
I have no problem when someone is held accountable for his/her actions.

Napolitano (Fox News): Trump's admitted contact with Ukraine is a crime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yY_N4d5xv8

FEC: Statement Regarding Illegal Contributions From Foreign Governments
https://www.fec.gov/resources/cms-conte ... utions.pdf

U.S. Code § 30121.Contributions and donations by foreign nationals
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121

[RickD]

Got it.

I have TDS because I trust a report released by a registered Republican former FBI Director that outlines 10 instances of obstruction of justice. Only lunatic would care about something like that.

I have TDS because I believed my own eyes when I read a transcript of a call in which Trump went full, obvious gangster and tried to use Congressionally allocated aid money to leverage an investigation into a political opponent. It's outright crazy to accept compelling evidence.

Meantime, you know with complete certainty that Hillary Clinton is crooked, even though she's been the subject of more GOP led investigations than anyone I can think of and she's never been charged with a crime. HRCDS plainly isn't a thing.

So yes, Rick, I'm the one who's deranged.

And you still haven't answered the question. If none of the above meets your standard for evidence of wrongdoing then what would it take?

Now you're just being argumentative.

I've said numerous times, that all politicians at high levels, are doing things that are shady.


That's one of the reasons why I stopped voting for president a while back. I just don't trust any of them.
I'm not wasting any more of my time with this.

[Byblos]

Got it.

I have TDS because I trust a report released by a registered Republican former FBI Director that outlines 10 instances of obstruction of justice. Only lunatic would care about something like that.

I have TDS because I believed my own eyes when I read a transcript of a call in which Trump went full, obvious gangster and tried to use Congressionally allocated aid money to leverage an investigation into a political opponent. It's outright crazy to accept compelling evidence.

Meantime, you know with complete certainty that Hillary Clinton is crooked, even though she's been the subject of more GOP led investigations than anyone I can think of and she's never been charged with a crime. HRCDS plainly isn't a thing.

So yes, Rick, I'm the one who's deranged.

And you still haven't answered the question. If none of the above meets your standard for evidence of wrongdoing then what would it take?

Not just TDS, I think you also have TTV (Trump Tunnel Vision). Only Trump can do wrong when others have done far, far worse and yet not only have they not risen to the level of impeachment, they are dismissed out of hand.

- Obama routinely obfuscated congressional inquires (rightly or wrongly, that is not the point). And yet, no obstruction charges.
- Biden not only threatened the Ukraine with withholding funds if they don't fire their prosecutor, a direct interference with a sovereign nation's internal affairs, and a direct conflict of interest with his son's company who was being investigated by said prosecutor. And Biden actually bragged about it. What was his defense? The White House authorized it. Which makes my point even stronger, no investigation, no obstruction or any criminal charges against the White House, Biden, or his son.
- Cliton, oh Dear Lord, where do I even begin? Benghazi? Emails? The millions and millions her and her husband's foundation collected from foreign entities? There was no domestic influence purchased there, right ED? The Steele dossier that was not only paid for to a foreign entity for the express purpose of influencing the 2016 elections (talk about collusion), it was totally made up, a fraud. Where are the criminal charges of collusion and obstruction of justice? What more, where exactly is the democratic outrage? Absolutely non-existent. All is dismissed or explained away. But not when it come to Trump. Impeach, impeach.

The double standard is so obviously flagrant, it is the very reason I STILL support Trump. If there were any semblance of fairness I may reconsider but there isn't and there will never be. You'll see how Ed will try to explain away all of the above and so many other cases. Whatever, I don't intend to debate these issues as they are clear as day to me.

I said it many times, I really don't like Trump the person. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna set my support aside for a duly elected president when I see the deck is completely stacked against him. Hell no. Never.

[RickD]

To be completely fair to Edwardmurphy,

He did spend countless hours on this forum, railing against Hillary at the time of Benghazi, and the emails, just like he's doing with Trump.

I'm certain that when I do a search, his fair and balanced criticism of Trump, will be balanced with dozens of posts criticizing Hillary, Obama, and VP Biden.

But for some reason, I'm having difficulty finding the multitudes of posts that back my assertion.

Maybe a rogue Mod deleted all his posts that were critical of the evil axis (Obama, Biden, and Grandma Hillary).

I'll get to the bottom of this! I've got your back, Ed!

[edwardmurphy]

Not just TDS, I think you also have TTV (Trump Tunnel Vision). Only Trump can do wrong when others have done far, far worse and yet not only have they not risen to the level of impeachment, they are dismissed out of hand.

The GOP held the House for 6 of Obama's 8 years. For his last 2 years they had the Senate, too. If they thought that he'd committed an impeachable offense they could have made a case for impeachment. They didn't.

- Obama routinely obfuscated congressional inquires (rightly or wrongly, that is not the point). And yet, no obstruction charges.

Again, the GOP held the House for 6 of Obama's 8 years, and all of Congress for his final 2 years. If they had something they could have used it. Why didn't they?

- Biden not only threatened the Ukraine with withholding funds if they don't fire their prosecutor, a direct interference with a sovereign nation's internal affairs, and a direct conflict of interest with his son's company who was being investigated by said prosecutor. And Biden actually bragged about it. What was his defense? The White House authorized it. Which makes my point even stronger, no investigation, no obstruction or any criminal charges against the White House, Biden, or his son.

This is a conspiracy theory that's been debunked in detail half a dozen times on this forum alone. If you're still clinging to it then that's fine, but you're wrong.

- Cliton, oh Dear Lord, where do I even begin? Benghazi? Emails? The millions and millions her and her husband's foundation collected from foreign entities? There was no domestic influence purchased there, right ED? The Steele dossier that was not only paid for to a foreign entity for the express purpose of influencing the 2016 elections (talk about collusion), it was totally made up, a fraud. Where are the criminal charges of collusion and obstruction of justice? What more, where exactly is the democratic outrage? Absolutely non-existent. All is dismissed or explained away. But not when it come to Trump. Impeach, impeach.

So many crimes! So much corruption! So many investigations! So few charges...?

I don't expect you to like Hillary Clinton or to support her policies. Why would you? You're a conservative and she's a liberal. Disagreement is expected. But this endless insistence that she's a criminal mastermind despite thirty years of investigations coming up empty is just pathological. Your blind, irrational hatred of Hillary Clinton is based on decades of innuendos and conspiracy theories. That narrative is completely discredited by the Republicans' own investigations.

The double standard is so obviously flagrant, it is the very reason I STILL support Trump. If there were any semblance of fairness I may reconsider but there isn't and there will never be. You'll see how Ed will try to explain away all of the above and so many other cases. Whatever, I don't intend to debate these issues as they are clear as day to me.

I said it many times, I really don't like Trump the person. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna set my support aside for a duly elected president when I see the deck is completely stacked against him. Hell no. Never.

Got it. You don't like Trump but you're still going to support him forever, no matter what, for no other reason than irrational partisan hatred. I was hoping for something better, but I guess that's an answer.

[edwardmurphy]

Must...avoid...topic...

Must...not...discuss...evidence...of...Trump's...wrongdoing...

Spew...distracting...nonsense...

Pivot...to...Benghazi...

[Byblos]

Not just TDS, I think you also have TTV (Trump Tunnel Vision). Only Trump can do wrong when others have done far, far worse and yet not only have they not risen to the level of impeachment, they are dismissed out of hand.

The GOP held the House for 6 of Obama's 8 years. For his last 2 years they had the Senate, too. If they thought that he'd committed an impeachable offense they could have made a case for impeachment. They didn't.

- Obama routinely obfuscated congressional inquires (rightly or wrongly, that is not the point). And yet, no obstruction charges.

Again, the GOP held the House for 6 of Obama's 8 years, and all of Congress for his final 2 years. If they had something they could have used it. Why didn't they?

- Biden not only threatened the Ukraine with withholding funds if they don't fire their prosecutor, a direct interference with a sovereign nation's internal affairs, and a direct conflict of interest with his son's company who was being investigated by said prosecutor. And Biden actually bragged about it. What was his defense? The White House authorized it. Which makes my point even stronger, no investigation, no obstruction or any criminal charges against the White House, Biden, or his son.

This is a conspiracy theory that's been debunked in detail half a dozen times on this forum alone. If you're still clinging to it then that's fine, but you're wrong.

- Cliton, oh Dear Lord, where do I even begin? Benghazi? Emails? The millions and millions her and her husband's foundation collected from foreign entities? There was no domestic influence purchased there, right ED? The Steele dossier that was not only paid for to a foreign entity for the express purpose of influencing the 2016 elections (talk about collusion), it was totally made up, a fraud. Where are the criminal charges of collusion and obstruction of justice? What more, where exactly is the democratic outrage? Absolutely non-existent. All is dismissed or explained away. But not when it come to Trump. Impeach, impeach.

So many crimes! So much corruption! So many investigations! So few charges...?

I don't expect you to like Hillary Clinton or to support her policies. Why would you? You're a conservative and she's a liberal. Disagreement is expected. But this endless insistence that she's a criminal mastermind despite thirty years of investigations coming up empty is just pathological. Your blind, irrational hatred of Hillary Clinton is based on decades of innuendos and conspiracy theories. That narrative is completely discredited by the Republicans' own investigations.

The double standard is so obviously flagrant, it is the very reason I STILL support Trump. If there were any semblance of fairness I may reconsider but there isn't and there will never be. You'll see how Ed will try to explain away all of the above and so many other cases. Whatever, I don't intend to debate these issues as they are clear as day to me.

I said it many times, I really don't like Trump the person. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna set my support aside for a duly elected president when I see the deck is completely stacked against him. Hell no. Never.

Got it. You don't like Trump but you're still going to support him forever, no matter what, for no other reason than irrational partisan hatred. I was hoping for something better, but I guess that's an answer.

And once again, I rest my case.

[edwardmurphy]

Seems like you should have made a case before resting, but suit yourself.

[Blessed]

Funny how rarely anyone addresses the content of my posts rather than just brushing them off with a cheap ad hominem. The real Trump Derangement Syndrome can be seen whenever a Trump supporter finds himself face to face with unpleasant facts about their guy.

Edward,

THERE ARE NO FACTS !

That is the problem! It's a constant 24/7 witch hunt using massive resources and there is NOTHING ! They report fake news speculations and hypothetical's on hypotheticals in a "factual manner" while a brainwashed leftist lemming like you "feels" there are facts.

There are NO FACTS. None!

[Blessed]

I have no problem when someone is held accountable for his/her actions.

Except when it's a matter of Selective Enforcement. Then I take great issue with someone being held accountable for their actions . Presidents are never held accountable for their actions when they do the bidding of the deep state. Never.

[edwardmurphy]

Edward,

THERE ARE NO FACTS !

Just keep on telling yourself that...

[RickD]

Edward,

THERE ARE NO FACTS !

Just keep on telling yourself that...

I think it's your left-leaning interpretation of the facts, that is in question.