Evidence for God from Science

Widge,

I'm going to have to ask that you stop judging people for making judgments.

Hey Widge, I've got gay friends! Just to let everyone know I'm now fully qualified to post on this subject.

In regards to gay people who say they were born gay, some do & some don't in my experience. I think many people view sexuality as a rather complex matter and not so much a gay/straight switch God presses before birth.

Professor Marc Breedlove's quote is also worth bearing in mind when asking people why they do things, or why they feel certain ways:
"I think asking people why they do things is a lousy way of finding out why, even if they are being completely honest. I think that psychological research makes it clear that people often aren't aware of the influences on their behaviour."

I don't doubt that genetics can have some, even a very large effect, on sexuality. It's just that at the moment by asking people the furtherest they tend to go back to is how they viewed same or different sex relationships at maybe if you're lucky the age of 4 or 5.

That is a great quote Pro. Being convinced in one's own mind is hardly grounds for truth. Imagine the problems that creates. Widge has refused to deal with the questions posed to him, on following that line of thinking to its logical ends.

Take the parable in luke in context and perhaps you will get a different message? I'm not gay, I do not have the plank of gayness in my eye..... Think about the parable. Jesus's message is not to be a hypocrite when leading others away from sin, not to allow people to continue of a disastrous path.

You posted 3 out of context quotes from a parable. If you are a fan of taking the bible of of context to prove a point then I suppose jesus is saying to kill in luke 19:27 .

Now, to judge, in a biblical sense means to lead, like the book of judges or book of leaders. By judging you are "leading away" from sin. But you believe we should not lead others away from sin but rather let people live and bathe in their sin. Now give me bible verses in context to support letting people continue to sin without objecting or telling them that what they do is wrong?

Would you allow your best friend to walk off a cliff or would you help re-direct him to the road? Your answer so far indicate you would let him walk off the cliff.

I look forward to your reply widge

Proinsias wrote:Hey Widge, I've got gay friends! Just to let everyone know I'm now fully qualified to post on this subject.

In regards to gay people who say they were born gay, some do & some don't in my experience. I think many people view sexuality as a rather complex matter and not so much a gay/straight switch God presses before birth.

Professor Marc Breedlove's quote is also worth bearing in mind when asking people why they do things, or why they feel certain ways:
"I think asking people why they do things is a lousy way of finding out why, even if they are being completely honest. I think that psychological research makes it clear that people often aren't aware of the influences on their behaviour."

I don't doubt that genetics can have some, even a very large effect, on sexuality. It's just that at the moment by asking people the furtherest they tend to go back to is how they viewed same or different sex relationships at maybe if you're lucky the age of 4 or 5.

Well there's something a lot of people have a hard time understanding - just asking a person how they feel does not give valid evidence about them.
And about genetics: what about identical twins with different sexual orientations?

jlay wrote:That is a great quote Pro. Being convinced in one's own mind is hardly grounds for truth. Imagine the problems that creates. Widge has refused to deal with the questions posed to him, on following that line of thinking to its logical ends.

I have not refused to deal with the questions. Why do you lie?

Proinsias wrote:Hey Widge, I've got gay friends! Just to let everyone know I'm now fully qualified to post on this subject.

In regards to gay people who say they were born gay, some do & some don't in my experience. I think many people view sexuality as a rather complex matter and not so much a gay/straight switch God presses before birth.

Professor Marc Breedlove's quote is also worth bearing in mind when asking people why they do things, or why they feel certain ways:
"I think asking people why they do things is a lousy way of finding out why, even if they are being completely honest. I think that psychological research makes it clear that people often aren't aware of the influences on their behaviour."

I don't doubt that genetics can have some, even a very large effect, on sexuality. It's just that at the moment by asking people the furtherest they tend to go back to is how they viewed same or different sex relationships at maybe if you're lucky the age of 4 or 5.

I 100% agree with this post. The most sensible of the lot this shows that God does at times create people who are gay. I.e We all sin and continuously sin does that mean God did not create us? Of course not!

No but it means we should attempt to change our sin when we become christian, and not continue to live a lifestyle that is clearly defined as sinful.

Murray wrote:No but it means we should attempt to change our sin when we become christian, and not continue to live a lifestyle that is clearly defined as sinful.

If God created that person a certain way they can’t help it unless God changes them or they become celebate.

Murray wrote:No but it means we should attempt to change our sin when we become christian, and not continue to live a lifestyle that is clearly defined as sinful.

If God created that person a certain way they can’t help it unless God changes them or they become celebate.

by Widge on Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:24 pm

Murray wrote:
No but it means we should attempt to change our sin when we become christian, and not continue to live a lifestyle that is clearly defined as sinful.




If God created that person a certain way they can’t help it unless God changes them or they become celebate.

this is just a joke now.

neo-x wrote:

by Widge on Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:24 pm

Murray wrote:
No but it means we should attempt to change our sin when we become christian, and not continue to live a lifestyle that is clearly defined as sinful.




If God created that person a certain way they can’t help it unless God changes them or they become celebate.

this is just a joke now.

So you are laughing at Gay people now?

Widge wrote:

Proinsias wrote:Hey Widge, I've got gay friends! Just to let everyone know I'm now fully qualified to post on this subject.

In regards to gay people who say they were born gay, some do & some don't in my experience. I think many people view sexuality as a rather complex matter and not so much a gay/straight switch God presses before birth.

Professor Marc Breedlove's quote is also worth bearing in mind when asking people why they do things, or why they feel certain ways:
"I think asking people why they do things is a lousy way of finding out why, even if they are being completely honest. I think that psychological research makes it clear that people often aren't aware of the influences on their behaviour."

I don't doubt that genetics can have some, even a very large effect, on sexuality. It's just that at the moment by asking people the furtherest they tend to go back to is how they viewed same or different sex relationships at maybe if you're lucky the age of 4 or 5.

I 100% agree with this post. The most sensible of the lot this shows that God does at times create people who are gay. I.e We all sin and continuously sin does that mean God did not create us? Of course not!

Apologies Widge but I was not attempting to give the impression that God either does or does not create gay people. And regardless if the answer is yes or no, should this really be a major contributory factor to the sinfulness, morality or societal acceptance of homosexuality?

Don't get me wrong here, I'm all for gay rights, gay marriage, gay adoption etc. I just don't see your line of argument - I couldn't really care less beyond a mild interest in genetics from university if homosexuality is genetic or not. If it did turn out to be almost entirely genetically based or almost entirely nurture based we're still talking about factors largely outwith the control of a child.

I think you are approaching the gay rights movement from a rather skewed point of view, it appears you wish to embrace the acceptance of a homosexual lifestyle as a tolerable sin. Most gay/bi people I know or have known see this issue not in that it should be simply be tolerated as everybody sins anyway but that it should in fact no longer be viewed as a sinful or morally bad pursuit. I do stress this is my own experience of talking to people in meatspace and cyberspace and not a fact.

Proinsias wrote:I think you are approaching the gay rights movement from a rather skewed point of view, it appears you wish to embrace the acceptance of a homosexual lifestyle as a tolerable sin. Most gay/bi people I know or have known see this issue not in that it should be simply be tolerated as everybody sins anyway but that it should in fact no longer be viewed as a sinful or morally bad pursuit. I do stress this is my own experience of talking to people in meatspace and cyberspace and not a fact.

So do polygamists, pedophiles, and practicers of bestiality.

....and heterosexuals