Evidence for God from Science

Mazzy wrote:

1over137 wrote:This thread is like chatting room.

Audie, i will pm you.

Mazzy, sure that God could use energy together with CP violation to create matter. Without CP violation matter would react with antimatter and annihilate into energy/photons again.

CP symmetry was violated at the Big Bang, or rather Big Fluff, because it should have produced equal amounts of matter and antimatter. The end result should have been no matter, no universe. Given we are here and there is a universe this did not happen. Hence current physical laws must have been different after the BB.

As a theist that believes in the beginning God, then God is responsible for the creation of the universe, even though we do not understand the physics behind it and even though the laws of physics as we know them break down after the singularity.

We know matter can be produced from energy. A living being, mind and all, is just matter arranged in a particular template. This is a more plausible explanation than protiens first.

CP symmetry is violated even nowadays. Scientists observe CP violation on particle accelerators.
Read e.g. this http://web.mit.edu/physics/news/physics ... eature.pdf

Current Standard Model does not give enough CP assymetry for having universe as we observe. But Standard Model is not the ultimite model because it for example does not incorporate neutrinos correctly. And from neutrino sector there comes another source of CP assymetry.

1over137 wrote:

Mazzy wrote:

1over137 wrote:This thread is like chatting room.

Audie, i will pm you.

Mazzy, sure that God could use energy together with CP violation to create matter. Without CP violation matter would react with antimatter and annihilate into energy/photons again.

CP symmetry was violated at the Big Bang, or rather Big Fluff, because it should have produced equal amounts of matter and antimatter. The end result should have been no matter, no universe. Given we are here and there is a universe this did not happen. Hence current physical laws must have been different after the BB.

As a theist that believes in the beginning God, then God is responsible for the creation of the universe, even though we do not understand the physics behind it and even though the laws of physics as we know them break down after the singularity.

We know matter can be produced from energy. A living being, mind and all, is just matter arranged in a particular template. This is a more plausible explanation than protiens first.

CP symmetry is violated even nowadays. Scientists observe CP violation on particle accelerators.
Read e.g. this http://web.mit.edu/physics/news/physics ... eature.pdf

Current Standard Model does not give enough CP assymetry for having universe as we observe. But Standard Model is not the ultimite model because it for example does not incorporate neutrinos correctly. And from neutrino sector there comes another source of CP assymetry.

Yep!!! I don’t pretend to be a physicist but I remember reading about direct CP violation and some other issues in relation to the standard model.

Which means the nature of Gods' being must still be energy/light, without having to worry about His percentage constitution of matter/antimatter. God is a spirit being. If in the beginning God and only God, then his being is a source of unimaginable power/energy.

A SOURCE of energy, yes, NOT energy.

PaulSacramento wrote:If God is energy then He can't be God because energy is either produced or changed and that would means that God something produced God or that God can change, which means He is Not God.

I disagree. Energy is neither created nor destroyed, I think we have a perfect reflection of what/whom must have been in the beginning, no matter how many possible universes one goes back.

Energy can change form, eg kinetic energy, and so can God. Hence again supporting the claim that Gods being is made of energy/light.

Mazzy wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:If God is energy then He can't be God because energy is either produced or changed and that would means that God something produced God or that God can change, which means He is Not God.

I disagree. Energy is neither created nor destroyed, I think we have a perfect reflection of what/whom must have been in the beginning, no matter how many possible universes one goes back.

Energy can change form, eg kinetic energy, and so can God. Hence again supporting the claim that Gods being is made of energy/light.

If God changes then He is not God.
Energy IS created ( or produced if you prefer).

PaulSacramento wrote:A SOURCE of energy, yes, NOT energy.

You don't know that. Indeed describing Gods being as light and energy, not only addresses Moses not being able to look at God and live, it also reconciles with everything we know about energy, and the fact that God was in the beginning and created the universe, made of matter.

Mazzy wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:A SOURCE of energy, yes, NOT energy.

You don't know that.

We do know that energy changes (E=MC2). God cannot change (2 great reading sources are Aquinas' argument from motion and divine simplicity).

Mazzy wrote:Indeed describing Gods being as light and energy, not only addresses Moses not being able to look at God and live, it also reconciles with everything we know about energy, and the fact that God was in the beginning and created the universe, made of matter.

That's anthropomorphic language Mazzy.

Mazzy wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:A SOURCE of energy, yes, NOT energy.

You don't know that. Indeed describing Gods being as light and energy, not only addresses Moses not being able to look at God and live, it also reconciles with everything we know about energy, and the fact that God was in the beginning and created the universe, made of matter.

The issue with Moses not being able to see God ( and the many preparations that the priests how to do when they entered the Holy of Holies in the Tabernacle) is one of radiation (probably) and not energy.
Some have argued that the reason gold was used on the Ark and in the wardrobe of the priest is that gold is an excellent insulator against radiation.
It may be that God in His "pure form" gives off intense radiation ( this may be why Moses face shinned after seeing God).
Note the the Son of Man image ( the transfiguration) is one that describes an intense radiance around Jesus.

If God is energy then God would have a cause or be able to be "moved", He would be changeable and all these things would mean that He would NOT be God because if He were those things it means that another being could exist that was "greater" than God.

I wonder how a person can really say what God can or cannot do?

As for matter and energy, the law that they cannot be created or destroyed is a human construct, based on observation and calculations.

It cannot be proved to be true. Possibly, it will be disproved.

PaulSacramento wrote:

Mazzy wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:If God is energy then He can't be God because energy is either produced or changed and that would means that God something produced God or that God can change, which means He is Not God.

I disagree. Energy is neither created nor destroyed, I think we have a perfect reflection of what/whom must have been in the beginning, no matter how many possible universes one goes back.

Energy can change form, eg kinetic energy, and so can God. Hence again supporting the claim that Gods being is made of energy/light.

If God changes then He is not God.
Energy IS created ( or produced if you prefer).

God in one form could not be looked upon eg Moses, in another God walked in the garden of Eden, God sent His Son, which many believe was God, God is believed to be a Trinity by some, He appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went into the country. (Mark 16:12) “Now when she [Mary Magdaline] had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, and did not know that it was Jesus”. (John 20:14). “To Abraham before the Destruction of Sodom. Then the LORD appeared to him by the terebinth trees of
Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw, he
ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground.” (Genesis 18:1–2)

Energy is NOT created nor destroyed, it can only change form. These are laws of physics. If you can overturn them you will get a Nobel prize.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

Audie wrote:I wonder how a person can really say what God can or cannot do?

As for matter and energy, the law that they cannot be created or destroyed is a human construct, based on observation and calculations.

It cannot be proved to be true. Possibly, it will be disproved.

I agree. How silly to suggest God cannot change form!

Audie wrote:I wonder how a person can really say what God can or cannot do?

Quite a lot actually.

Mazzy wrote:

Audie wrote:I wonder how a person can really say what God can or cannot do?

As for matter and energy, the law that they cannot be created or destroyed is a human construct, based on observation and calculations.

It cannot be proved to be true. Possibly, it will be disproved.

I agree. How silly to suggest God cannot change form!

Do yourself a favor and read what I suggested.

PaulSacramento wrote:

Mazzy wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:A SOURCE of energy, yes, NOT energy.

You don't know that. Indeed describing Gods being as light and energy, not only addresses Moses not being able to look at God and live, it also reconciles with everything we know about energy, and the fact that God was in the beginning and created the universe, made of matter.

The issue with Moses not being able to see God ( and the many preparations that the priests how to do when they entered the Holy of Holies in the Tabernacle) is one of radiation (probably) and not energy.
Some have argued that the reason gold was used on the Ark and in the wardrobe of the priest is that gold is an excellent insulator against radiation.
It may be that God in His "pure form" gives off intense radiation ( this may be why Moses face shinned after seeing God).
Note the the Son of Man image ( the transfiguration) is one that describes an intense radiance around Jesus.

If God is energy then God would have a cause or be able to be "moved", He would be changeable and all these things would mean that He would NOT be God because if He were those things it means that another being could exist that was "greater" than God.

Please read the link re Conservation of Energy and how energy can change form.

Radiation is a form of energy. Heat energy is a form of kinetic energy because heat is related to the motion of
particles. This means heat is a form of kinetic energy.

Byblos wrote:

Mazzy wrote:

Audie wrote:I wonder how a person can really say what God can or cannot do?

As for matter and energy, the law that they cannot be created or destroyed is a human construct, based on observation and calculations.

It cannot be proved to be true. Possibly, it will be disproved.

I agree. How silly to suggest God cannot change form!

Do yourself a favor and read what I suggested.

Have I inadvertently offended you? I was responding to Audie.