Evidence for God from Science

Kenny wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:29 am

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:11 am

Kenny wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:35 am

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:59 am

Kenny asserted without proof:
One thing every religion has in common is that they are each rejected by the vast majority of people.

That's patently false.

Depending on the poll, around 66 to 80 percent of Americans, identify as Christians.

Kenny,

Do you even think when you post, or do you just blurt out any bs that comes to mind?

I said PEOPLE not Americans. The vast majority of people would wide do not identify as Christian.

PS
Do you actually read what I say or do you just blurt out what ever bs that comes to mind? (LOL)

Worldwide, you say?

Ok. According to this link, people identifying with Christianity, make up approximately 33% of the world's population. And those identifying with Islam, make up approximately 24% of the world's population. So, when we add up only those two religions, that makes up approximately 57% of the world's population. And like I said, that doesn't include other religions.

With that said, your statement is still patently false. Every religion is not rejected by the vast majority of people. I just showed you where the two most popular religions worldwide, are in fact ACCEPTED by the majority of people.

So I ask again, do you even think when you post?

C'mon Rick you makin' this too easy! Okay here goes....

Notice I said each religion (not theism) is rejected by the majority. So according to your figures, Christianity (the largest religion in the world) makes up 33% of the world's population. That means it is rejected by 67% of the world's population. 67>33 thus my argument stands.

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:39 am

Kenny wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:29 am

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:11 am

Kenny wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:35 am

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:59 am
That's patently false.

Depending on the poll, around 66 to 80 percent of Americans, identify as Christians.

Kenny,

Do you even think when you post, or do you just blurt out any bs that comes to mind?

I said PEOPLE not Americans. The vast majority of people would wide do not identify as Christian.

PS
Do you actually read what I say or do you just blurt out what ever bs that comes to mind? (LOL)

Worldwide, you say?

Ok. According to this link, people identifying with Christianity, make up approximately 33% of the world's population. And those identifying with Islam, make up approximately 24% of the world's population. So, when we add up only those two religions, that makes up approximately 57% of the world's population. And like I said, that doesn't include other religions.

With that said, your statement is still patently false. Every religion is not rejected by the vast majority of people. I just showed you where the two most popular religions worldwide, are in fact ACCEPTED by the majority of people.

So I ask again, do you even think when you post?

C'mon Rick you makin' this too easy! Okay here goes....

Notice I said each religion (not theism) is rejected by the majority. So according to your figures, Christianity (the largest religion in the world) makes up 33% of the world's population. That means it is rejected by 67% of the world's population. 67>33 thus my argument stands.

Kenny,

The majority of the world's population believes in a creator God. So, while your point about each religion on its own, being rejected by the majority of people, still stands, your point is meaningless, when it comes to the discussion at hand, which is theism, a belief in a creator God. So, you may think your sneaky little answer is cute, but it didn't really address the point that Nils was making.

Kenny wrote:
If we gonna go back to what Nils and I were discussing, neither of us said anything about a creator God. So a Creator God is not the discussion at hand.

As I said to Rick above, I think it is an intellectually honest position for an atheist refuse to say: “I believe that God doesn’t exist”. But if you join a discussion with theist (and that is what I’m talking about) it seems to me that it is impossible to state that you don’t have any opinion or belief about Gods existence. Also, if the theist believes in a wide spread religion it seems a bit careless to refute it without argument. The fact that lot of persons believe in it is a kind of evidence even it is far from conclusive. What to mean by a "wide spread" religion is a matter of taste but if a majority has it that is certainly enough.

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:37 am

Kenny wrote:
If we gonna go back to what Nils and I were discussing, neither of us said anything about a creator God. So a Creator God is not the discussion at hand.

Let's go back to what Nils said:

As I said to Rick above, I think it is an intellectually honest position for an atheist refuse to say: “I believe that God doesn’t exist”. But if you join a discussion with theist (and that is what I’m talking about) it seems to me that it is impossible to state that you don’t have any opinion or belief about Gods existence. Also, if the theist believes in a wide spread religion it seems a bit careless to refute it without argument. The fact that lot of persons believe in it is a kind of evidence even it is far from conclusive. What to mean by a "wide spread" religion is a matter of taste but if a majority has it that is certainly enough.

Kenny,

Read what nils wrote. Pay attention to the part I underlined. Nils is talking about entering a conversation with a theist. Nils even says, if it's not clear enough already, "and that is what I'm talking about".

I think it's safe to assume that virtually anyone but you, who enters a conversation with a theist, about theism and atheism, knows what a theist is. And what's really sad, is that you still don't admit that a theist is someone who believes at the very least, that God is a creator.

Is it ever possible for you to be intellectually honest about anything?

Kenny wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:28 am

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:37 am

Kenny wrote:
If we gonna go back to what Nils and I were discussing, neither of us said anything about a creator God. So a Creator God is not the discussion at hand.

Let's go back to what Nils said:

As I said to Rick above, I think it is an intellectually honest position for an atheist refuse to say: “I believe that God doesn’t exist”. But if you join a discussion with theist (and that is what I’m talking about) it seems to me that it is impossible to state that you don’t have any opinion or belief about Gods existence. Also, if the theist believes in a wide spread religion it seems a bit careless to refute it without argument. The fact that lot of persons believe in it is a kind of evidence even it is far from conclusive. What to mean by a "wide spread" religion is a matter of taste but if a majority has it that is certainly enough.

Kenny,

Read what nils wrote. Pay attention to the part I underlined. Nils is talking about entering a conversation with a theist. Nils even says, if it's not clear enough already, "and that is what I'm talking about".

I think it's safe to assume that virtually anyone but you, who enters a conversation with a theist, about theism and atheism, knows what a theist is. And what's really sad, is that you still don't admit that a theist is someone who believes at the very least, that God is a creator.

Is it ever possible for you to be intellectually honest about anything?

If he meant “Creator God” he would have said Creator God. My response was in context of what he actually said. I can understand the desire to twist and contort what he said to fit your agenda, but it ain’t workin' Bruh!

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:36 am

Kenny wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:28 am

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:37 am

Kenny wrote:
If we gonna go back to what Nils and I were discussing, neither of us said anything about a creator God. So a Creator God is not the discussion at hand.

Let's go back to what Nils said:

As I said to Rick above, I think it is an intellectually honest position for an atheist refuse to say: “I believe that God doesn’t exist”. But if you join a discussion with theist (and that is what I’m talking about) it seems to me that it is impossible to state that you don’t have any opinion or belief about Gods existence. Also, if the theist believes in a wide spread religion it seems a bit careless to refute it without argument. The fact that lot of persons believe in it is a kind of evidence even it is far from conclusive. What to mean by a "wide spread" religion is a matter of taste but if a majority has it that is certainly enough.

Kenny,

Read what nils wrote. Pay attention to the part I underlined. Nils is talking about entering a conversation with a theist. Nils even says, if it's not clear enough already, "and that is what I'm talking about".

I think it's safe to assume that virtually anyone but you, who enters a conversation with a theist, about theism and atheism, knows what a theist is. And what's really sad, is that you still don't admit that a theist is someone who believes at the very least, that God is a creator.

Is it ever possible for you to be intellectually honest about anything?

If he meant “Creator God” he would have said Creator God. My response was in context of what he actually said. I can understand the desire to twist and contort what he said to fit your agenda, but it ain’t workin' Bruh!

Ken,
Believing in a Creator God is implicit, in the definition of theist.
Why do you have difficulty with the basics of the English language? It's stuff an 8 year old can grasp.
I even underlined what Nils actually said, so you can see for yourself, because you seem to have trouble responding to what people actually say.

Nils was talking about having a conversation with a theist. Nils knows what a theist is. Why do you refuse to acknowledge the truth?

Kenny wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:59 am

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:36 am

Kenny wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:28 am

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:37 am

Kenny wrote:
If we gonna go back to what Nils and I were discussing, neither of us said anything about a creator God. So a Creator God is not the discussion at hand.

Let's go back to what Nils said:

As I said to Rick above, I think it is an intellectually honest position for an atheist refuse to say: “I believe that God doesn’t exist”. But if you join a discussion with theist (and that is what I’m talking about) it seems to me that it is impossible to state that you don’t have any opinion or belief about Gods existence. Also, if the theist believes in a wide spread religion it seems a bit careless to refute it without argument. The fact that lot of persons believe in it is a kind of evidence even it is far from conclusive. What to mean by a "wide spread" religion is a matter of taste but if a majority has it that is certainly enough.

Kenny,

Read what nils wrote. Pay attention to the part I underlined. Nils is talking about entering a conversation with a theist. Nils even says, if it's not clear enough already, "and that is what I'm talking about".

I think it's safe to assume that virtually anyone but you, who enters a conversation with a theist, about theism and atheism, knows what a theist is. And what's really sad, is that you still don't admit that a theist is someone who believes at the very least, that God is a creator.

Is it ever possible for you to be intellectually honest about anything?

If he meant “Creator God” he would have said Creator God. My response was in context of what he actually said. I can understand the desire to twist and contort what he said to fit your agenda, but it ain’t workin' Bruh!

Ken,
Believing in a Creator God is implicit, in the definition of theist.
Why do you have difficulty with the basics of the English language? It's stuff an 8 year old can grasp.
I even underlined what Nils actually said, so you can see for yourself, because you seem to have trouble responding to what people actually say.

Nils was talking about having a conversation with a theist. Nils knows what a theist is. Why do you refuse to acknowledge the truth?

My response to Nils was of theism meaning belief in supreme being or a Deity as the definition below
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism

Now if I misunderstood him, if he meant creator God, he can feel free to come back and correct me, and I will apologize to him concerning my misunderstanding. But until then… you speaking for him just isn’t good enough.

This article is about the concept of a supreme "God" in the context of monotheism.

In monotheistic thought, God is conceived of as the supreme being, creator deity, and principal object of faith.[3] God is usually conceivedas being omniscient (all-knowing), omnipotent (all-powerful), omnipresent (all-present) and as having an eternal and necessary existence.

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:13 pm

Kenny wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:59 am

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:36 am

Kenny wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:28 am

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:37 am

Let's go back to what Nils said:

Kenny,

Read what nils wrote. Pay attention to the part I underlined. Nils is talking about entering a conversation with a theist. Nils even says, if it's not clear enough already, "and that is what I'm talking about".

I think it's safe to assume that virtually anyone but you, who enters a conversation with a theist, about theism and atheism, knows what a theist is. And what's really sad, is that you still don't admit that a theist is someone who believes at the very least, that God is a creator.

Is it ever possible for you to be intellectually honest about anything?

If he meant “Creator God” he would have said Creator God. My response was in context of what he actually said. I can understand the desire to twist and contort what he said to fit your agenda, but it ain’t workin' Bruh!

Ken,
Believing in a Creator God is implicit, in the definition of theist.
Why do you have difficulty with the basics of the English language? It's stuff an 8 year old can grasp.
I even underlined what Nils actually said, so you can see for yourself, because you seem to have trouble responding to what people actually say.

Nils was talking about having a conversation with a theist. Nils knows what a theist is. Why do you refuse to acknowledge the truth?

My response to Nils was of theism meaning belief in supreme being or a Deity as the definition below
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism

Now if I misunderstood him, if he meant creator God, he can feel free to come back and correct me, and I will apologize to him concerning my misunderstanding. But until then… you speaking for him just isn’t good enough.

Kenny, you do realize that in the wiki article you linked regarding theism, when you click on the Supreme Being in blue, it is defined as:

This article is about the concept of a supreme "God" in the context of monotheism.

In monotheistic thought, God is conceived of as the supreme being, creator deity, and principal object of faith.[3] God is usually conceivedas being omniscient (all-knowing), omnipotent (all-powerful), omnipresent (all-present) and as having an eternal and necessary existence.

Are you admitting that you finally understand the definition of theism, as we have been telling you all along? Or are you going to find a way to squirm out of it, even after it was in your link, that you said you were using as a definition?

Kenny wrote:
You really aren’t getting this are you. Okay let’s go with Creator God. While we’re at it let’s also go with supreme being, also let’s add creator of mankind, Alpha Omega, uncaused cause, and any other title you wanna throw in there. How does this refute what I said? Remember I said each religion is rejected by the majority of people.-

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:26 pm

Kenny wrote:
You really aren’t getting this are you. Okay let’s go with Creator God. While we’re at it let’s also go with supreme being, also let’s add creator of mankind, Alpha Omega, uncaused cause, and any other title you wanna throw in there. How does this refute what I said? Remember I said each religion is rejected by the majority of people.-

I'm not sure if Alpha and Omega is too specific to Christianity, so I think we should leave that out when talking about basic theism.

Just so we're clear...from now on when you talk about theism, it's understood that we're talking about a creator God, an uncaused cause, etc., right? No more stupid comparisons to Haile Selassie, ok?

So when we talk about atheism, we're talking about a belief that the creator God, the uncaused cause, etc., doesn't exist, right?

Theism=belief in a monotheistic God, as per your chosen definition.

Atheism=belief that a monotheistic God does not exist

If we're clear on the basics, we may actually be able to have a meaningful conversation.

Which I would really look forward to.

Kenny wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:50 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:26 pm

Kenny wrote:
You really aren’t getting this are you. Okay let’s go with Creator God. While we’re at it let’s also go with supreme being, also let’s add creator of mankind, Alpha Omega, uncaused cause, and any other title you wanna throw in there. How does this refute what I said? Remember I said each religion is rejected by the majority of people.-

I'm not sure if Alpha and Omega is too specific to Christianity, so I think we should leave that out when talking about basic theism.

Just so we're clear...from now on when you talk about theism, it's understood that we're talking about a creator God, an uncaused cause, etc., right? No more stupid comparisons to Haile Selassie, ok?

So when we talk about atheism, we're talking about a belief that the creator God, the uncaused cause, etc., doesn't exist, right?

Theism=belief in a monotheistic God, as per your chosen definition.

Atheism=belief that a monotheistic God does not exist

If we're clear on the basics, we may actually be able to have a meaningful conversation.

Which I would really look forward to.

When I respond to you (and others on this forum I know enough about) I usually refer to the God of the Bible and I usually prefix it with
“When I say God I mean the God of Christianity”
However when speaking to someone else I may not know as well I’m not just going to assume unless the conversation gives me reason to
Also when I refer to those who worship the Sun Halle Selassie, or one of the pagan Gods, it’s usually in reference to what various some theists believe

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:01 pm

Kenny wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:50 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:26 pm

Kenny wrote:
You really aren’t getting this are you. Okay let’s go with Creator God. While we’re at it let’s also go with supreme being, also let’s add creator of mankind, Alpha Omega, uncaused cause, and any other title you wanna throw in there. How does this refute what I said? Remember I said each religion is rejected by the majority of people.-

I'm not sure if Alpha and Omega is too specific to Christianity, so I think we should leave that out when talking about basic theism.

Just so we're clear...from now on when you talk about theism, it's understood that we're talking about a creator God, an uncaused cause, etc., right? No more stupid comparisons to Haile Selassie, ok?

So when we talk about atheism, we're talking about a belief that the creator God, the uncaused cause, etc., doesn't exist, right?

Theism=belief in a monotheistic God, as per your chosen definition.

Atheism=belief that a monotheistic God does not exist

If we're clear on the basics, we may actually be able to have a meaningful conversation.

Which I would really look forward to.

When I respond to you (and others on this forum I know enough about) I usually refer to the God of the Bible and I usually prefix it with
“When I say God I mean the God of Christianity”
However when speaking to someone else I may not know as well I’m not just going to assume unless the conversation gives me reason to
Also when I refer to those who worship the Sun Halle Selassie, or one of the pagan Gods, it’s usually in reference to what various some theists believe

Kenny,

I'm talking about conversations here, regarding theism and atheism. Can we agree, at least as far as those conversations, that you will use your wiki definition of God?

If you run into a Hailie Selassie worshiper, or someone who worships the Sun, feel free to address their god however you feel like.

We at least need to agree on some basics, if we're going to have any kind of meaningful conversation.

Kenny wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:22 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:01 pm

Kenny wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:50 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:26 pm

Kenny wrote:
You really aren’t getting this are you. Okay let’s go with Creator God. While we’re at it let’s also go with supreme being, also let’s add creator of mankind, Alpha Omega, uncaused cause, and any other title you wanna throw in there. How does this refute what I said? Remember I said each religion is rejected by the majority of people.-

I'm not sure if Alpha and Omega is too specific to Christianity, so I think we should leave that out when talking about basic theism.

Just so we're clear...from now on when you talk about theism, it's understood that we're talking about a creator God, an uncaused cause, etc., right? No more stupid comparisons to Haile Selassie, ok?

So when we talk about atheism, we're talking about a belief that the creator God, the uncaused cause, etc., doesn't exist, right?

Theism=belief in a monotheistic God, as per your chosen definition.

Atheism=belief that a monotheistic God does not exist

If we're clear on the basics, we may actually be able to have a meaningful conversation.

Which I would really look forward to.

When I respond to you (and others on this forum I know enough about) I usually refer to the God of the Bible and I usually prefix it with
“When I say God I mean the God of Christianity”
However when speaking to someone else I may not know as well I’m not just going to assume unless the conversation gives me reason to
Also when I refer to those who worship the Sun Halle Selassie, or one of the pagan Gods, it’s usually in reference to what various some theists believe

Kenny,

I'm talking about conversations here, regarding theism and atheism. Can we agree, at least as far as those conversations, that you will use your wiki definition of God?

If you run into a Hailie Selassie worshiper, or someone who worships the Sun, feel free to address their god however you feel like.

We at least need to agree on some basics, if we're going to have any kind of meaningful conversation.

As I said usually when I discuss with people I know I specify Christianity. Now when I was discussing with Nils I wasn’t discussing theism I was discussing religion

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:39 pm

Kenny wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:22 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:01 pm

Kenny wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:50 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:26 pm
I'm not sure if Alpha and Omega is too specific to Christianity, so I think we should leave that out when talking about basic theism.

Just so we're clear...from now on when you talk about theism, it's understood that we're talking about a creator God, an uncaused cause, etc., right? No more stupid comparisons to Haile Selassie, ok?

So when we talk about atheism, we're talking about a belief that the creator God, the uncaused cause, etc., doesn't exist, right?

Theism=belief in a monotheistic God, as per your chosen definition.

Atheism=belief that a monotheistic God does not exist

If we're clear on the basics, we may actually be able to have a meaningful conversation.

Which I would really look forward to.

When I respond to you (and others on this forum I know enough about) I usually refer to the God of the Bible and I usually prefix it with
“When I say God I mean the God of Christianity”
However when speaking to someone else I may not know as well I’m not just going to assume unless the conversation gives me reason to
Also when I refer to those who worship the Sun Halle Selassie, or one of the pagan Gods, it’s usually in reference to what various some theists believe

Kenny,

I'm talking about conversations here, regarding theism and atheism. Can we agree, at least as far as those conversations, that you will use your wiki definition of God?

If you run into a Hailie Selassie worshiper, or someone who worships the Sun, feel free to address their god however you feel like.

We at least need to agree on some basics, if we're going to have any kind of meaningful conversation.

As I said usually when I discuss with people I know I specify Christianity. Now when I was discussing with Nils I wasn’t discussing theism I was discussing religion

Can you ever be intellectually honest? Your first response to nils is here.
You are discussing theism and atheism.

Kenny wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:45 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:39 pm

Kenny wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:22 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:01 pm

Kenny wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:50 pm
When I respond to you (and others on this forum I know enough about) I usually refer to the God of the Bible and I usually prefix it with
“When I say God I mean the God of Christianity”
However when speaking to someone else I may not know as well I’m not just going to assume unless the conversation gives me reason to
Also when I refer to those who worship the Sun Halle Selassie, or one of the pagan Gods, it’s usually in reference to what various some theists believe

Kenny,

I'm talking about conversations here, regarding theism and atheism. Can we agree, at least as far as those conversations, that you will use your wiki definition of God?

If you run into a Hailie Selassie worshiper, or someone who worships the Sun, feel free to address their god however you feel like.

We at least need to agree on some basics, if we're going to have any kind of meaningful conversation.

As I said usually when I discuss with people I know I specify Christianity. Now when I was discussing with Nils I wasn’t discussing theism I was discussing religion

Can you ever be intellectually honest? Your first response to nils is here.
You are discussing theism and atheism.

I wasn’t talking about the first comment I made to him I was talking about the specific comment that you chose to pick apart. That comment I wasn’t talking about theism I was talking about religion, I even said religon