"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." (Psalm 19:1)
https://discussions.godandscience.org/
thank you for your reply brother, I will take some time in replying, as always you come back in full force as wellGod bless, Brother Neo, and sorry for the lateness in replying.
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sounds stupid, right? 
, God WOULD HAVE TO make us, right? since God himself ALWAYS KNEW. 
(Just kidding)Is it really limiting his character, i dont think so.Yes, but then it kind of limits God's choices too. For those who believe in predestination , God WOULD HAVE TO make us, right? since God himself ALWAYS KNEW.
Any scriptural proof, bro?Yes but God exists in all time and outside time all at once, he does not make choices he just does.
In the context of predestination most of us are talking about these days, yes it would lead to this. Although I am not sure if all will admit it or go that far. If the lamb of God was slain before the foundations of the earth settled, then we are talking not only about God's choices but also how they Affect us. Please Dan, not talking about Omniscience here. Omniscience is = God knows all. Predestination is = God designed it to happen. You are talking in terms of omniscience, please have a look through predestination. If God set the stage, for the fall, for Christ, for everything. Then he would have to make us, right? to begin the plan.by Danieltwotwenty on Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:58 pm
Yes, but then it kind of limits God's choices too. For those who believe in predestination , God WOULD HAVE TO make us, right? since God himself ALWAYS KNEW.
Is it really limiting his character, i dont think so.
Its like that argument can God make somthing so heavy that he can't lift it.... it's not logical so no he wouldn't because it goes against his character.
In the same way God is all knowing and constant knowlage of events is not limiting his character.
LOL didn't i just give a couple of posts about God not being outside timeDanieltwotwenty wrote:Yes but God exists in all time and outside time all at once, he does not make choices he just does.
Yes we are, but...I don't know...it just started.CeT-To » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:21 pm
Danieltwotwenty wrote:
Yes but God exists in all time and outside time all at once, he does not make choices he just does.
LOL didn't i just give a couple of posts about God not being outside time
Btw way Neo aren't we talking about this in the other Topic page?
Nah just my crazy thoughts at a time of night that i shouldn't be awake.Any scriptural proof, bro?
Danieltwotwenty » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:31 pm
Any scriptural proof, bro?
Nah just my crazy thoughts at a time of night that i shouldn't be awake.
I thought so...no worries..get some sleep Yes you did, CeT-To, and you haven’t demonstrated that God's being involved in temporal events necessitates Him being bound by time.CeT-To wrote:LOL didn't i just give a couple of posts about God not being outside timeDanieltwotwenty wrote:Yes but God exists in all time and outside time all at once, he does not make choices he just does.
God is still everlasting and eternal even if he enters a temporal mode of existence since God would have still have existed from eternity to eternity, everlasting to everlasting. Well hold on God does limit himself in some ways when dealing with creation
Too right it makes no sense at all, since the whole thing is just an unproven assumption. Where is the actual argument that shows God cannot be eternal and operate in time? I haven’t seen it. You’re making the assumption that God, who is not restricted to time, must think sequentially along with us in time. But since God knows all things eternally, this does not seem to hold at all.But it is not possible for a timeless God to interact with finite timely beings unless you take the view that time is static where all moments in time are present to their subjective standpoint in the time block and God is outside this block of time- yet this view of time is unacceptable for the Christian because then 2000yrs ago Jesus is still on that Cross existing yet in the future he is Still existing but at the right hand of the father. That makes no sense at all.
How does it follow that a timeless God is a frozen God? I haven’t seen you demonstrate this.it is a logical effect from creation that he also enter into a temporal mode of existence and not be timelessly frozen.
God can't overthrow our free will or annihilate us, this isn't anything new and this would be a change in your view since before he was not limited or self restrained in this way, unless you take that Malachi 3:6 is talking about his character.
Plus Christ is not timeless lol the second person of the trinity entered time to save us by your view ( mine is that God entered into a temporal state since creation)
so even then you can't hold that God is still in his timeless state.
Jesus wasn’t created, Bro. Can you tell me what God has created outside of creation?John 1:1:3
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Prove the assertion:Lol you should see a logical reason because you can't remain timeless yet act in time - once God would act in time he would shift into a temporal mode where there would be no turning back, even if he destroyed the universe and physical time (as you see it as the only place with time) you can still say " God DID annihilate the universe" or " God DID uphold the universe", time would still be there.
What i don't understand from you danny is that you keep talking about this restriction of time - Why is being in time a restriction rather than a liberation in order to act? I gave an explanation in my last post about what would time be like outside the universe.DannyM wrote:Yes you did, CeT-To, and you haven’t demonstrated that God's being involved in temporal events necessitates Him being bound by time.CeT-To wrote:LOL didn't i just give a couple of posts about God not being outside timeDanieltwotwenty wrote:Yes but God exists in all time and outside time all at once, he does not make choices he just does.
God is still everlasting and eternal even if he enters a temporal mode of existence since God would have still have existed from eternity to eternity, everlasting to everlasting. Well hold on God does limit himself in some ways when dealing with creation
Too right it makes no sense at all, since the whole thing is just an unproven assumption. Where is the actual argument that shows God cannot be eternal and operate in time? I haven’t seen it. You’re making the assumption that God, who is not restricted to time, must think sequentially along with us in time. But since God knows all things eternally, this does not seem to hold at all.But it is not possible for a timeless God to interact with finite timely beings unless you take the view that time is static where all moments in time are present to their subjective standpoint in the time block and God is outside this block of time- yet this view of time is unacceptable for the Christian because then 2000yrs ago Jesus is still on that Cross existing yet in the future he is Still existing but at the right hand of the father. That makes no sense at all.
What would it mean for a timeless God to become spatiotemporal?
DannyM wrote:How does it follow that a timeless God is a frozen God? I haven’t seen you demonstrate this.it is a logical effect from creation that he also enter into a temporal mode of existence and not be timelessly frozen.
God can't overthrow our free will or annihilate us, this isn't anything new and this would be a change in your view since before he was not limited or self restrained in this way, unless you take that Malachi 3:6 is talking about his character.
If absolute free will were true, then God could not act in the world, so the above is useless.
Right i understand now the confusion on both our side of the argument here. Maybe i can make you understand, consider that the universe was indeed the first creation, have you ever asked yourself what was God doing then? well nothing because there was no time, he just was because if God would have done something then at the moment that something would have been done -time begins - like explained in the last post where time would just be allowance for us to use the timely senses like past and present and that's all outside the universe. The reason why God was doing nothing was because it is logically impossible for God to have done an actual number of acts so hence there had to be a start where he first moved and then that's where time started.DannyM wrote:Plus Christ is not timeless lol the second person of the trinity entered time to save us by your view ( mine is that God entered into a temporal state since creation)
so even then you can't hold that God is still in his timeless state.
I don’t think so, Bro:
Jesus wasn’t created, Bro. Can you tell me what God has created outside of creation?John 1:1:3
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
I never said the Word was created =_=
DannyM wrote:Prove the assertion:Lol you should see a logical reason because you can't remain timeless yet act in time - once God would act in time he would shift into a temporal mode where there would be no turning back, even if he destroyed the universe and physical time (as you see it as the only place with time) you can still say " God DID annihilate the universe" or " God DID uphold the universe", time would still be there.
If God is timeless, He is unable to operate in time.
I know it sounds important, and I may be missing out on something here, but is meaningless to me, Bro.Danny, man you are being really stubborn you are not even trying to understandDannyM wrote:CeT-To, all this talk of "B Theory of Time" means zero to me. It's like reading the convolutions of WLC
And why would it be unjust for God to annihilate us? We don't have absolute free will.
The assumption remains from this that God being timeless and in eternity means He was in some kind of a coma. And you still haven’t demonstrated that God's being involved in temporal events entails His being bound by time. Basically just prove God is not timeless.
