Evidence for God from Science

Byblos wrote:

Audie wrote:

Byblos wrote:

Audie wrote:

hughfarey wrote:That's interesting. That math exists independently of any universe. And I think true. The angle subtended by a diameter at the circumference of a circle would be a right angle even if no circles actually existed at all. But how do you think it brings a Universe into being?

This is not of course my idea. But my understanding is that matn did
not bring the universe into being, it is math.

It is both descriptive and predictive but not causative.

I didnt say causative, I said Isative. Or something like that.

I did not say you did, I was agreeing with you.

OH. So what do I have to do get get a argument?

Steady on, Audie; a moment ago you said that you thought Math existed "with or without a Universe", and now you say that the Universe is Math. And that Math is isative (I think I know what you mean) to the Universe. These ideas do not seem wholly congruent to me. They beg the question, 'why is there something rather than nothing'. Either way, it seems that math is more powerful than most people give it credit for. Universal, eternal, omnipotent maths... I think the writers of the bible may have got there before you...

hughfarey wrote:Steady on, Audie; a moment ago you said that you thought Math existed "with or without a Universe", and now you say that the Universe is Math. And that Math is isative (I think I know what you mean) to the Universe. These ideas do not seem wholly congruent to me. They beg the question, 'why is there something rather than nothing'. Either way, it seems that math is more powerful than most people give it credit for. Universal, eternal, omnipotent maths... I think the writers of the bible may have got there before you...

Unlike some people I am not averse to contradictions. i've more than a few in myself, and it doesnt bother me. Dont know why it should.

Perhaps the universe is a manifestation of math? Aspect of it?
I dont think the Universe we live in is remotely its only game. Like math permeates everything that exists, or doesnt exist.

Why something, not nothing. Yes, that is a problem.

The writers of the bible came along before me, yes, tho that is not
what you meant.

Math has very long been taken to have some mystical / religious quality to it.
People universally come up with ideas of the supernatural. I wonder if dogs think cars are supernatural.

I dont really give the bible writers a whole lot of credit there. Their math is terrible, and so is their astrophysics. Withal, I see it as a book of the compiled folk wisdom of a people. spiced with magic realism. And of course, the usual tribal belief of being "the" people, and in the supernatural.

Yes. Do you know, I think I agree with most of that.