Understanding the Trinity

[Storyteller]

Women are NOT drawn to wife beaters, fear makes them stay, sometimes.

You can't say "women are drawn to wife beaters anymore than I can say all men are rapists. And I have had experience of both and trust me I wascdrawn toneither.

Sorry for typos etc but I am really, really mad at you for stating such a harmful, stupid comment.
Very little gets to me, live and let live but seriously????

We are not drawn to wife beaters...

statements like that enable such cowardly acts, tis the womans fault...

get real!

[RickD]

Women are NOT drawn to wife beaters, fear makes them stay, sometimes.

You can't say "women are drawn to wife beaters anymore than I can say all men are rapists. And I have had experience of both and trust me I wascdrawn toneither.

Sorry for typos etc but I am really, really mad at you for stating such a harmful, stupid comment.
Very little gets to me, live and let live but seriously????

We are not drawn to wife beaters...

statements like that enable such cowardly acts, tis the womans fault...

get real!

Annette,

You must be wrong. Didn't you know that bbyrd009 is here to enlighten us Christians?

We all should heed what he has to say.*

*First we need someone to tell us what he's actually saying.

[bbyrd009]

Interesting read from John 1:1-3,14 from the Greek Text...


John 1:1 εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

John 1:2 ουτος ην εν αρχη προς τον θεον

John 1:3 παντα δι αυτου εγενετο και χωρις αυτου εγενετο ουδε εν ο γεγονεν

Now Verse 14...

John 1:14 και ο λογος σαρξ εγενετο και εσκηνωσεν εν ημιν και εθεασαμεθα την δοξαν αυτου δοξαν ως μονογενους παρα πατρος πληρης χαριτος και αληθειας

Anyone like to play translator?
-
-
-

50Jesus said, “You believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You will see greater things than that.”
51He then added, “Very truly I tell you, you will see ‘heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on’ the Son of Man.”

‘heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on’ the "Son of Man"
http://biblehub.com/genesis/28.htm

[jenna]

We seek people who can assure us, because we naturally want to know, and so we are led to those with charisma and confidence, as surely as a woman is drawn to a wife-beater.

please tell me you did not just say this.

but i apologize for being insensitive there, i just grabbed the first symbology that came to mind.

so what you are saying here is that even YOU dont know what you are saying?

[bbyrd009]

We seek people who can assure us, because we naturally want to know, and so we are led to those with charisma and confidence, as surely as a woman is drawn to a wife-beater.

please tell me you did not just say this.

but i apologize for being insensitive there, i just grabbed the first symbology that came to mind.

so what you are saying here is that even YOU dont know what you are saying?

i'm not sure why you chose that quote to make that point, but definitely, yes, i have even said as much. I do not know any more than anyone else knows, and you should not believe anything you hear, even if you heard it from me, if it does not fit with your own common sense and understanding. Conversely however, in some weird way, the whole of Scripture will now become available to one who has abandoned "knowing," as the Bible suggests.

Which let's admit, even if it was offensive on some level, the symbology was accurate enough, wasn't it? Although i guess i'll come up with a different example next time, more accessible perhaps. The only other one that springs to mind is about how we are drawn to sociopaths, who, naturally, gravitate to positions of power and authority, which is kind of nebulous? Lol

[Jac3510]

John 1:3 παντα δι αυτου εγενετο και χωρις αυτου εγενετο ουδε εν ο γεγονεν

Unrelated to the converastion, but as an aside, this is one of those passages that vexes me to no end. I cannot for the life of me decide if ο γεγονεν is the end of sentence or if it is the beginning of the next. Should it be, "all things were created through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being which has come into being. In Him was life . . ."; or should it be, "all thinsg were created through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being. That which comes into being in Him was life . . ."

Most translators prefer the first because, frankly, it's easier to make sense of. But I can't get the second reading out of my head. The latter feels a lot more like John's normal mode of thought. Take, for instance, the popular John 3:16. Here's the relevant portion:

• πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται ἀλλὰ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον

See ὁ πιστεύων followed by the εἰς αὐτὸν ? That's the exact same stucture as in 1:3c-4a. Granted we have εἰς rather than εν, but there is such a large amount of semantic overlap between those two words they may as well be parallel in structure. On the other hand, you do have verses like Joh 14:2a, which says:

• ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ τοῦ πατρός μου μοναὶ πολλαί εἰσιν

So here, the ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ is the same structure as 1:4a -- the sentence starts with ἐν, is followed by the object, then the subject, and then the verb. I can see precedents for both views.

I'm going to have a converastion with my friend Tom, who did doctoral work in linguistics, to ask him what kind of tools might be helpful for coming to some sort of resolution on this. I still lean towards the minority view, not only because it just "feels" more Johannine, but because I also think it gives us a better balance of the verse itself. Notice the contrast:

• παντα δι αυτου εγενετο
  και
  χωρις αυτου εγενετο ουδε εν

That looks pretty convincing to me. Adding the extra ο γεγονεν throws off the balance. So taken, we could paraphrase the translation just a bit to bring out the strength of it as something like

• Everything came into being through Him.
  Absolutely nothing came into being apart from Him.

For non-Greek readers, I assume the parallelism is easier to see with such a translation. Of course, the problem here is that while this is so much easier, you've now made 1:4 much more difficult: "That which came into being in Him was life, and the life was the light of men."

Anyway, carry on with your regularly scheduled program.

[Philip]

B. W. wrote:
John 1:3 παντα δι αυτου εγενετο και χωρις αυτου εγενετο ουδε εν ο γεγονεν

Jac: Unrelated to the converastion, but as an aside, this is one of those passages that vexes me to no end. I cannot for the life of me decide if ο γεγονεν is the end of sentence or if it is the beginning of the next.

Wow, Jac, that makes two of us!

[Jac3510]

Glad I'm in great company.

[RickD]

Glad I'm in great company.

That makes three of us. Can I be great company, by association?

[Jac3510]

Glad I'm in great company.

That makes three of us. Can I be great company, by association?

I was speaking prophetically, waiting for the confirmation that you're with us. Phil's great, too.

[RickD]

Glad I'm in great company.

That makes three of us. Can I be great company, by association?

I was speaking prophetically, waiting for the confirmation that you're with us. Phil's great, too.

Please don't confuse me. You're starting to sound like that other guy who doesn't believe Jesus is the Christ.

[bbyrd009]

if you get some new ears, all that will clarify, Rick

[jenna]

We seek people who can assure us, because we naturally want to know, and so we are led to those with charisma and confidence, as surely as a woman is drawn to a wife-beater.

please tell me you did not just say this.

but i apologize for being insensitive there, i just grabbed the first symbology that came to mind.

so what you are saying here is that even YOU dont know what you are saying?

i'm not sure why you chose that quote to make that point, but definitely, yes, i have even said as much. I do not know any more than anyone else knows, and you should not believe anything you hear, even if you heard it from me, if it does not fit with your own common sense and understanding. Conversely however, in some weird way, the whole of Scripture will now become available to one who has abandoned "knowing," as the Bible suggests.

Which let's admit, even if it was offensive on some level, the symbology was accurate enough, wasn't it? Although i guess i'll come up with a different example next time, more accessible perhaps. The only other one that springs to mind is about how we are drawn to sociopaths, who, naturally, gravitate to positions of power and authority, which is kind of nebulous? Lol

actually, no, the symbology was not accurate at all. to say a woman is drawn to a wife-beater is absurd. and now you say we are drawn to sociopaths as well? how exactly do you come to these conclusions?

[bbyrd009]

please tell me you did not just say this.

but i apologize for being insensitive there, i just grabbed the first symbology that came to mind.

so what you are saying here is that even YOU dont know what you are saying?

i'm not sure why you chose that quote to make that point, but definitely, yes, i have even said as much. I do not know any more than anyone else knows, and you should not believe anything you hear, even if you heard it from me, if it does not fit with your own common sense and understanding. Conversely however, in some weird way, the whole of Scripture will now become available to one who has abandoned "knowing," as the Bible suggests.

Which let's admit, even if it was offensive on some level, the symbology was accurate enough, wasn't it? Although i guess i'll come up with a different example next time, more accessible perhaps. The only other one that springs to mind is about how we are drawn to sociopaths, who, naturally, gravitate to positions of power and authority, which is kind of nebulous? Lol

actually, no, the symbology was not accurate at all. to say a woman is drawn to a wife-beater is absurd. and now you say we are drawn to sociopaths as well? how exactly do you come to these conclusions?

the symbology of a woman being attracted to a charismatic or self confident man is not accurate? https://www.google.com/search?q=symbolo ... e&ie=UTF-8

don't miss "Why Are Men With Dark Triad Personalities So Irresistible To Women."

And now i say we are drawn to sociopaths as well https://www.google.com/search?q=we+are+ ... e&ie=UTF-8

see "Why Are Women Attracted To Psychopaths?"

but you do understand that this is not universal, i hope. People wise up, and young people move in to take the old's place, etc. I didn't mean that you, personally are necessarily in any group, and it is even possible, i guess, that you never were. Never beguiled by another human being? Hmm.

[Philip]

Jac: but as an aside, this is one of those passages that vexes me to no end.

Seriously, Jac, are their many such passages that you find so unclear - or any that might have tremendous significance, per the uncertainty?