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1over137 wrote:Question for you Stardust: If God foreknows that humans will turn from him, should he not allow people to turn from him? And should he not send Jesus to try to turn some people back?
IMO if God foreknows that humans will turn from him, he should have made us in a way that we would not want to turn from him; kinda like in Heaven.
Ken
Incompetent, impotent or evil. Comes to mind
Free will, love, and people that aren't robots comes to mind.
You want God to FORCE people to love Him? That is evil. Love that is forced, is not really love, now is it? Think about it.
Do you FORCE your kid to look both ways before crossing the street? Do you FORCE your kid to eat balanced meals for breakfast, lunch, and dinner instead of ice cream and cake as he would prefer? Do you FORCE your kid to share? Do you FORCE your kid to go to school, or church, when he would rather be playing with Tonka Toys?
Is your kid a robot?
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
1over137 wrote:Question for you Stardust: If God foreknows that humans will turn from him, should he not allow people to turn from him? And should he not send Jesus to try to turn some people back?
IMO if God foreknows that humans will turn from him, he should have made us in a way that we would not want to turn from him; kinda like in Heaven.
Ken
Incompetent, impotent or evil. Comes to mind
Free will, love, and people that aren't robots comes to mind.
You want God to FORCE people to love Him? That is evil. Love that is forced, is not really love, now is it? Think about it.
Do you FORCE your kid to look both ways before crossing the street? Do you FORCE your kid to eat balanced meals for breakfast, lunch, and dinner instead of ice cream and cake as he would prefer? Do you FORCE your kid to share? Do you FORCE your kid to go to school, or church, when he would rather be playing with Tonka Toys?
Is your kid a robot?
Ken
Kenny,
We are talking about adults, not children. That was a horrible comparison. Do you ever think about what you post, before you post it?
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Here is the thing, if we decide to put ourselves in God's shoes and view things from HIS POV ( even if we do it with human preconceived notions) that means we have to accept what it means to be God.
That means that all that we are told about God is true, period.
But what does that mean?
It means that there is no "death" as we know it, that there is a greater purpose and we KNOW that ( not just think or believe but KNOW for a FACT).
That means that God NOT FORCING Us is very valid because God KNOWS that anything FORCED is not done by free will.
That means that allowing someone to die means nothing because the person is NOT dead at all, just in a different state of existence, a state CLOSER to the final one.
Being God means that you CAN NOT look at things like a human.
Think about what I said. My point has nothing to do with children. Just because a person is given parameters, restrictions, and are unable to do everything they want; doesn't mean they are robots. NOBODY should be given unrestricted freewill.
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
Think about what I said. My point has nothing to do with children. Just because a person is given parameters, restrictions, and are unable to do everything they want; doesn't mean they are robots. NOBODY should be given unrestricted freewill.
Ken
So the restrictions would be: "If you do not love me I will make you love me."
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6
Think about what I said. My point has nothing to do with children. Just because a person is given parameters, restrictions, and are unable to do everything they want; doesn't mean they are robots. NOBODY should be given unrestricted freewill.
Ken
So the restrictions would be: "If you do not love me I will make you love me."
No, restrictions would be preventing us from doing things he disapproves of.
K
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
Think about what I said. My point has nothing to do with children. Just because a person is given parameters, restrictions, and are unable to do everything they want; doesn't mean they are robots. NOBODY should be given unrestricted freewill.
Ken
So the restrictions would be: "If you do not love me I will make you love me."
No, restrictions would be preventing us from doing things he disapproves of.
K
Or in other words, only allowing us to do what He approves of. Still sounds like programmed robots to me.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Think about what I said. My point has nothing to do with children. Just because a person is given parameters, restrictions, and are unable to do everything they want; doesn't mean they are robots. NOBODY should be given unrestricted freewill.
Ken
So the restrictions would be: "If you do not love me I will make you love me."
No, restrictions would be preventing us from doing things he disapproves of.
K
Genesis 3:2-6
2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.
Genesis 3:22-23
22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken.
So, the question is why God did allow to eat the fruit of the tree.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6
B. W. wrote:
So the Marine who tossed himself on a grenade during combat saving his squad sacrifice was in vain too?
If the Marine were all knowing, all powerful, all wise and pefectly good, he would have prevented the grenade from being tossed towards his squad in the first place; don't cha think?
Ken
Okay Kenny,
instead of having us say this and that about God, indulge us for a bit a play god for a moment:
How would you have created the universe and humanity it?
Please do not give trite answers such as - I would made it perfect blah blah bla... please - give specifics...
What kind of flowers, plant life, colors, animal life, would you have made on earth and what level of intelligence would you give to human beings and to animals...
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)
Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
Think about what I said. My point has nothing to do with children. Just because a person is given parameters, restrictions, and are unable to do everything they want; doesn't mean they are robots. NOBODY should be given unrestricted freewill.
Ken
So the restrictions would be: "If you do not love me I will make you love me."
No, restrictions would be preventing us from doing things he disapproves of.
K
Or in other words, only allowing us to do what He approves of. Still sounds like programmed robots to me.
If your son is under your rules because you are his gaurdian, does this make him a robot? Currently you are only allowed to do what the law allows, are YOU a robot? No! Robots do not have a mind of their own; people who live under restrictions do.Big difference.
Ken
Last edited by Kenny on Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
