Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:06 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:05 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 10:50 am

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:39 am

RickD wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 2:29 pm warren631,

Do you believe Jesus Christ is God?

And no, I'm not asking if you if you believe Jesus Christ is the Father.

RickD,

Do you believe Jesus is the God of Genesis, the Creator, YHWH, the owner of the finger that wrote on tablets of stone...?

And no, I'm no asking if you if you believe Jesus Christ is the Father.

For Ref: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41367&p=236878#p236831

And as I've said multiple times, and am getting tired of repeating, whether God wrote the 10 commandments with His literal or figurative finger, is irrelevant to your argument, because the 10 commandments were not given to gentile believers.

Actually , in Jeremiah 31:33 where God states that he will put his laws in their inward parts and in their hearts, so his laws were for everyone not just the Jews. Romans 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also;.

Which laws? All Old Testament laws?

If not, why not?

The laws God placed within us are his commandments, and by adoption we are to follow them... the Jewish laws, the mosaic laws, contained the ten commandments in them but the mosaic laws were only for the Jews. Back then that is how they distinguished themselves in their religion from the rest of the religions of the time.. If you are born a Jew then you are bound by Jewish law, if you are born into Christianity the Jewish law, mosaic law, does not apply. Any person who is not of Jewish decent is a Gentile...

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:29 pm So God gave the 10 commandments to Moses and then placed them into our inward parts and in our hearts Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Actually... according to Jeremiah 31 the New Covenant would be a different covenant from the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24.
Jeremiah 31:31-33

“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to[d] them,[e]”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

I think it is important to note that the New Covenant (which Jesus established) was a new covenant with the "House of Israel".

However, anyone (Jew or Gentile) who places their faith and trust in Jesus (the Jewish Messiah and King of the Jews) becomes "Abraham's seed" and enters into the New Covenant that Jesus established with the "House of Israel".
Galatians 3:26-29

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:58 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:29 pm So God gave the 10 commandments to Moses and then placed them into our inward parts and in our hearts Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Actually... according to Jeremiah 31 the New Covenant would be a different covenant from the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24.
Jeremiah 31:31-33

“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to[d] them,[e]”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

I think it is important to note that the New Covenant (which Jesus established) was a new covenant with the "House of Israel".

However, anyone (Jew or Gentile) who places their faith and trust in Jesus (the Jewish Messiah and King of the Jews) becomes "Abraham's seed" and enters into the New Covenant that Jesus established with the "House of Israel".
Galatians 3:26-29

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I would have to disagree because the covenant that was established with the death and resurrection of Christ was only to do away with blood sacrifice because, even back in the day, they would sacrifice and still continue to commit the same sin knowing that all they had to do was perform the sacrifice and all would be forgiven.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice.

sorry but those who feel that Jesus died to free us from the commandments have not read the Bible fully... I mean you can "read the Bible" but to fully comprehend it you must put yourself in the same mindset as if you were living in that time... Not being rude but basic reading comprehension works in this aspect.

you have to put in work to show your faith because without it faith is dead and if faith is dead, where is Grace?

James 2 17-26 "14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:14 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:58 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:29 pm So God gave the 10 commandments to Moses and then placed them into our inward parts and in our hearts Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Actually... according to Jeremiah 31 the New Covenant would be a different covenant from the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24.
Jeremiah 31:31-33

“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to[d] them,[e]”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

I think it is important to note that the New Covenant (which Jesus established) was a new covenant with the "House of Israel".

However, anyone (Jew or Gentile) who places their faith and trust in Jesus (the Jewish Messiah and King of the Jews) becomes "Abraham's seed" and enters into the New Covenant that Jesus established with the "House of Israel".
Galatians 3:26-29

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I would have to disagree because the covenant that was established with the death and resurrection of Christ was only to do away with blood sacrifice because, even back in the day, they would sacrifice and still continue to commit the same sin knowing that all they had to do was perform the sacrifice and all would be forgiven.

You are confusing two different topics...

The topic you address in your post is the relationship between faith and works.

The relationship between faith and works is related to but different from the relationship between the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24 and the New Covenant that Jesus established with his death and resurrection.

I was discussing the Old Covenant vs New Covenant and whether Gentiles (or even Jews for that matter) are still under the Old Covenant.
And Hebrews 8:13 answers that question clearly and succinctly.

By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

As for the relationship between faith and works, Ephesians 2:8-10 summarizes things quite nicely

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

We are saved BY grace THROUGH faith...
NOT BY works
but TO DO good works

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:24 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:14 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:58 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:29 pm So God gave the 10 commandments to Moses and then placed them into our inward parts and in our hearts Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Actually... according to Jeremiah 31 the New Covenant would be a different covenant from the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24.
Jeremiah 31:31-33

“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to[d] them,[e]”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

I think it is important to note that the New Covenant (which Jesus established) was a new covenant with the "House of Israel".

However, anyone (Jew or Gentile) who places their faith and trust in Jesus (the Jewish Messiah and King of the Jews) becomes "Abraham's seed" and enters into the New Covenant that Jesus established with the "House of Israel".
Galatians 3:26-29

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I would have to disagree because the covenant that was established with the death and resurrection of Christ was only to do away with blood sacrifice because, even back in the day, they would sacrifice and still continue to commit the same sin knowing that all they had to do was perform the sacrifice and all would be forgiven.

You are confusing two different topics...

The topic you address in your post is the relationship between faith and works.

The relationship between faith and works is related to but different from the relationship between the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24 and the New Covenant that Jesus established with his death and resurrection.

I was discussing the Old Covenant vs New Covenant and whether Gentiles (or even Jews for that matter) are still under the Old Covenant.
And Hebrews 8:13 answers that question clearly and succinctly.

By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

As for the relationship between faith and works, Ephesians 2:8-10 summarizes things quite nicely

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

We are saved BY grace THROUGH faith...
NOT BY works
but TO DO good works

No I have not confused the topics at all.. The old covenant is still in place the only thing that has changed is that we no longer have to provide the blood sacrifice because Christ has already provided the blood sacrifice... And you are only saved when you trully commit yourself to the authority of God and show your commitment to him by the showing of your works... Faith without works is dead and grace without faith is also dead because without the works you cannot show the Glory of God and your commitment to Him.

James 2:17-19 "17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

Faith encompasses everything.. without faith you cannot have grace, without grace you cannot have salvation... so if you take into account that Jesus only paid the blood sacrifice then the old covenant is still intact with the acceptation that we no longer have top provide the sacrifice.

that is how people get things twisted is because they segregate everything instead of looking at the entire picture plus it shows that no one actually pays attention to the teachings of Chris nor his doctrine. If they actually paid attention, then there would be no confusion.

Society is not yet ready for full disclosure because they still hold true to the common belief that all they have to do is accept Christ and God will do the rest and the, my friend, is taking the LORDs name in vain.

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:04 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:24 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:14 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:58 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:29 pm So God gave the 10 commandments to Moses and then placed them into our inward parts and in our hearts Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Actually... according to Jeremiah 31 the New Covenant would be a different covenant from the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24.
Jeremiah 31:31-33

“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to[d] them,[e]”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

I think it is important to note that the New Covenant (which Jesus established) was a new covenant with the "House of Israel".

However, anyone (Jew or Gentile) who places their faith and trust in Jesus (the Jewish Messiah and King of the Jews) becomes "Abraham's seed" and enters into the New Covenant that Jesus established with the "House of Israel".
Galatians 3:26-29

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I would have to disagree because the covenant that was established with the death and resurrection of Christ was only to do away with blood sacrifice because, even back in the day, they would sacrifice and still continue to commit the same sin knowing that all they had to do was perform the sacrifice and all would be forgiven.

You are confusing two different topics...

The topic you address in your post is the relationship between faith and works.

The relationship between faith and works is related to but different from the relationship between the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24 and the New Covenant that Jesus established with his death and resurrection.

I was discussing the Old Covenant vs New Covenant and whether Gentiles (or even Jews for that matter) are still under the Old Covenant.
And Hebrews 8:13 answers that question clearly and succinctly.

By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

As for the relationship between faith and works, Ephesians 2:8-10 summarizes things quite nicely

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

We are saved BY grace THROUGH faith...
NOT BY works
but TO DO good works

No I have not confused the topics at all.. The old covenant is still in place the only thing that has changed is that we no longer have to provide the blood sacrifice because Christ has already provided the blood sacrifice...

Jeremiah 31:31-33 and especially Hebrews 8:6-13 say you are wrong.
Your disagreement is with Scripture not me.

Feel free to point me to any Scripture to support your assertion that the Old Covenant is still in effect today.

RickD wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:30 pm

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:27 am Is there any of the 10 commandments that you think you SHOULDN'T follow/ obey ?

I'll answer your question with a question, to hopefully show you what I mean.

Should someone in Florida follow/obey laws in California?

Federal laws?

People always quote James about "good works" and then they fail to mention WHAT good works He actually goes on to talk about.

Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Not even ONE mention of a Law...

James is stating TWO things:
1) with faith COMES works, not for salvation or justification but good works spring forth from faith with NO ULTERIOR MOTIVE.
2) Doing good works with correct intent ( doing right because it is right and for no other reason) is a sign of God working through people.

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:31 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:04 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:24 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:14 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:58 am
Actually... according to Jeremiah 31 the New Covenant would be a different covenant from the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24.
Jeremiah 31:31-33

I think it is important to note that the New Covenant (which Jesus established) was a new covenant with the "House of Israel".

However, anyone (Jew or Gentile) who places their faith and trust in Jesus (the Jewish Messiah and King of the Jews) becomes "Abraham's seed" and enters into the New Covenant that Jesus established with the "House of Israel".
Galatians 3:26-29

I would have to disagree because the covenant that was established with the death and resurrection of Christ was only to do away with blood sacrifice because, even back in the day, they would sacrifice and still continue to commit the same sin knowing that all they had to do was perform the sacrifice and all would be forgiven.

You are confusing two different topics...

The topic you address in your post is the relationship between faith and works.

The relationship between faith and works is related to but different from the relationship between the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24 and the New Covenant that Jesus established with his death and resurrection.

I was discussing the Old Covenant vs New Covenant and whether Gentiles (or even Jews for that matter) are still under the Old Covenant.
And Hebrews 8:13 answers that question clearly and succinctly.

By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

As for the relationship between faith and works, Ephesians 2:8-10 summarizes things quite nicely

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

We are saved BY grace THROUGH faith...
NOT BY works
but TO DO good works

No I have not confused the topics at all.. The old covenant is still in place the only thing that has changed is that we no longer have to provide the blood sacrifice because Christ has already provided the blood sacrifice...

Jeremiah 31:31-33 and especially Hebrews 8:6-13 say you are wrong.
Your disagreement is with Scripture not me.

Feel free to point me to any Scripture to support your assertion that the Old Covenant is still in effect today.

Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
the covenant that is new is that we shall no longer teach "Do you know God". this was the new covenant not a covenant where we Jesus died to free us from the laws of God nor was any of the teachings of Christ a contradiction to the old covenant.

So with the knowledge of Truth being placed within our hearts and inward parts, we know God from birth and are bound to him Always. because the written commandments were not obeyed God placed them into us so that they will be there and cannot be avoided... How can you avoid something that is a part of your being???

so with that being said, Hebrews 8:6-13 is satisfied as is Jeremiah 31:31-33...

No covenant exisits, anywhere, that states we are free of the law of God nor that Christ died to release us from it...

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:20 am

RickD wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:30 pm

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:27 am Is there any of the 10 commandments that you think you SHOULDN'T follow/ obey ?

I'll answer your question with a question, to hopefully show you what I mean.

Should someone in Florida follow/obey laws in California?

Federal laws?

Paul,

The point I'm trying to make, is that I don't need to follow the 10 commandments, to know that I ought not murder my neighbor. I don't live my life striving to follow the 10 commandments.

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:35 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:31 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:04 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:24 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:14 am

I would have to disagree because the covenant that was established with the death and resurrection of Christ was only to do away with blood sacrifice because, even back in the day, they would sacrifice and still continue to commit the same sin knowing that all they had to do was perform the sacrifice and all would be forgiven.

You are confusing two different topics...

The topic you address in your post is the relationship between faith and works.

The relationship between faith and works is related to but different from the relationship between the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24 and the New Covenant that Jesus established with his death and resurrection.

I was discussing the Old Covenant vs New Covenant and whether Gentiles (or even Jews for that matter) are still under the Old Covenant.
And Hebrews 8:13 answers that question clearly and succinctly.

By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

As for the relationship between faith and works, Ephesians 2:8-10 summarizes things quite nicely

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

We are saved BY grace THROUGH faith...
NOT BY works
but TO DO good works

No I have not confused the topics at all.. The old covenant is still in place the only thing that has changed is that we no longer have to provide the blood sacrifice because Christ has already provided the blood sacrifice...

Jeremiah 31:31-33 and especially Hebrews 8:6-13 say you are wrong.
Your disagreement is with Scripture not me.

Feel free to point me to any Scripture to support your assertion that the Old Covenant is still in effect today.

Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
the covenant that is new is that we shall no longer teach "Do you know God". this was the new covenant not a covenant where we Jesus died to free us from the laws of God nor was any of the teachings of Christ a contradiction to the old covenant.

So with the knowledge of Truth being placed within our hearts and inward parts, we know God from birth and are bound to him Always. because the written commandments were not obeyed God placed them into us so that they will be there and cannot be avoided... How can you avoid something that is a part of your being???

Again...
You are confusing two different things.
You are confusing the Old Covenant that God made with the House of Israel in Exodus 19-24 with God's moral law or the law written on our hearts (Romans 2:14-15).

God's moral law (ie the law written on our hearts) is applicable for everyone, Jew or Gentile.
Even though the Old Covenant contains God's moral law. God's moral law is applicable because it transcends the Old Covenant (see Mat 5-7), not because it is part of the Old Covenant.

Hebrews 8:6-13 explicitly states that the New Covenant made the Old Covenant obsolete

By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete;

That's not me saying that... that's Scripture.

That said, God's moral law is consistent throughout both the Old and New Covenants.

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:11 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:35 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:31 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:04 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:24 am
You are confusing two different topics...

The topic you address in your post is the relationship between faith and works.

The relationship between faith and works is related to but different from the relationship between the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24 and the New Covenant that Jesus established with his death and resurrection.

I was discussing the Old Covenant vs New Covenant and whether Gentiles (or even Jews for that matter) are still under the Old Covenant.
And Hebrews 8:13 answers that question clearly and succinctly.


As for the relationship between faith and works, Ephesians 2:8-10 summarizes things quite nicely

We are saved BY grace THROUGH faith...
NOT BY works
but TO DO good works

No I have not confused the topics at all.. The old covenant is still in place the only thing that has changed is that we no longer have to provide the blood sacrifice because Christ has already provided the blood sacrifice...

Jeremiah 31:31-33 and especially Hebrews 8:6-13 say you are wrong.
Your disagreement is with Scripture not me.

Feel free to point me to any Scripture to support your assertion that the Old Covenant is still in effect today.

Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
the covenant that is new is that we shall no longer teach "Do you know God". this was the new covenant not a covenant where we Jesus died to free us from the laws of God nor was any of the teachings of Christ a contradiction to the old covenant.

So with the knowledge of Truth being placed within our hearts and inward parts, we know God from birth and are bound to him Always. because the written commandments were not obeyed God placed them into us so that they will be there and cannot be avoided... How can you avoid something that is a part of your being???

Again...
You are confusing two different things.
You are confusing the Old Covenant that God made with the House of Israel in Exodus 19-24 with God's moral law or the law written on our hearts (Romans 2:14-15).

God's moral law (ie the law written on our hearts) is applicable for everyone, Jew or Gentile.
Even though the Old Covenant contains God's moral law. God's moral law is applicable because it transcends the Old Covenant (see Mat 5-7), not because it is part of the Old Covenant.

Hebrews 8:6-13 explicitly states that the New Covenant made the Old Covenant obsolete

By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete;

That's not me saying that... that's Scripture.

That said, God's moral law is consistent throughout both the Old and New Covenants.

Hence the title of this thread as to whether Gods law is Valid or not the answer would be, Yes by your own statement because God's law transcends.. Meaning that we are to obey it no matter what... no confusion anywhere...

Jesus Lived by the Law of God and taught others to do the same... Even said" if ye love me keep my commandments" his acceptance of the laws as the authority they became his laws because he knew that they were the foundation of everything...

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:30 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:11 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:35 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:31 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:04 am

No I have not confused the topics at all.. The old covenant is still in place the only thing that has changed is that we no longer have to provide the blood sacrifice because Christ has already provided the blood sacrifice...

Jeremiah 31:31-33 and especially Hebrews 8:6-13 say you are wrong.
Your disagreement is with Scripture not me.

Feel free to point me to any Scripture to support your assertion that the Old Covenant is still in effect today.

Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
the covenant that is new is that we shall no longer teach "Do you know God". this was the new covenant not a covenant where we Jesus died to free us from the laws of God nor was any of the teachings of Christ a contradiction to the old covenant.

So with the knowledge of Truth being placed within our hearts and inward parts, we know God from birth and are bound to him Always. because the written commandments were not obeyed God placed them into us so that they will be there and cannot be avoided... How can you avoid something that is a part of your being???

Again...
You are confusing two different things.
You are confusing the Old Covenant that God made with the House of Israel in Exodus 19-24 with God's moral law or the law written on our hearts (Romans 2:14-15).

God's moral law (ie the law written on our hearts) is applicable for everyone, Jew or Gentile.
Even though the Old Covenant contains God's moral law. God's moral law is applicable because it transcends the Old Covenant (see Mat 5-7), not because it is part of the Old Covenant.

Hebrews 8:6-13 explicitly states that the New Covenant made the Old Covenant obsolete

By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete;

That's not me saying that... that's Scripture.

That said, God's moral law is consistent throughout both the Old and New Covenants.

Hence the title of this thread as to whether Gods law is Valid or not the answer would be, Yes by your own statement because God's law transcends.. Meaning that we are to obey it no matter what... no confusion anywhere...

That's not what the title says...
The title refers to the 10 Commandments.
The 10 Commandments (Exodus 20) are part of the Old Covenant that God made with the House of Israel in Exodus 19-24.

The 10 Commandments contain both moral law and ceremonial law.
The moral law contained in the 10 Commandments transcends the Old Covenant, can be found repeated in the New Testament, and is still applicable today.

The ceremonial law in the 10 Commandments does not transcend the Old Covenant and became "obsolete" (Hebrews 8:13) when Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant and established the New Covenant.