Evidence for God from Science

PaulSacramento wrote:

Our local little "big bang" may be but one of an infinite number of them.

The "Big Bang" was what set in motion/expanded the UNIVERSE, not our solar system or galaxy.
By definition, it was the beginning of our universe so there were no others.

Suture self, as the doctor kit would put it. But I didnt say "solar system" or something so dimwitted as that.

Define away, our universe, as we parochially like to term it, may be one of an infinite number of such.

PaulSacramento wrote:

Audie wrote:
Possibly so, I believe the sun is hot and bright, that getting hit by a car is quite painful. Can you choose not to so believe?

I refuse to believe that you don't understand this conversation and the degrees there are of how we believe or choose not to believe things.
I think you are being hard headed about the very simple fact that we CHOOSE as to whether we believe something or not.
And I am not sure WHy you are being this way.

We choose to believe that the people in our lives love us ( as an example) based on the evidence we have for that ( how they treat us for example). We choose to believe that, using your example) getting hit by a car will hurt ( even if we have never been hit by one) because the evidence that it will hurt is reasonable to us.
Yes, a person can choose NOT to believe that getting hit will hurt us, but that would go against reason based on what we know about us and cars.
Point being, quite simply, everything we believe is a choice that we make to believe.

I kind of thought all along that the key to being religious is a great capacity for self deception.

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

Our local little "big bang" may be but one of an infinite number of them.

The "Big Bang" was what set in motion/expanded the UNIVERSE, not our solar system or galaxy.
By definition, it was the beginning of our universe so there were no others.

Suture self, as the doctor kit would put it. But I didnt say "solar system" or something so dimwitted as that.

Define away, our universe, as we parochially like to term it, may be one of an infinite number of such.

Any evidence of that?
No one takes the whole "multiverse" thing seriously, since there is ZERO evidence for it.

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

Audie wrote:
Possibly so, I believe the sun is hot and bright, that getting hit by a car is quite painful. Can you choose not to so believe?

I refuse to believe that you don't understand this conversation and the degrees there are of how we believe or choose not to believe things.
I think you are being hard headed about the very simple fact that we CHOOSE as to whether we believe something or not.
And I am not sure WHy you are being this way.

We choose to believe that the people in our lives love us ( as an example) based on the evidence we have for that ( how they treat us for example). We choose to believe that, using your example) getting hit by a car will hurt ( even if we have never been hit by one) because the evidence that it will hurt is reasonable to us.
Yes, a person can choose NOT to believe that getting hit will hurt us, but that would go against reason based on what we know about us and cars.
Point being, quite simply, everything we believe is a choice that we make to believe.

I kind of thought all along that the key to being religious is a great capacity for self deception.

Or irreligious it seems.

Paul: Point being, quite simply, everything we believe is a choice that we make to believe.

Which also obviously means we can choose what to believe and what NOT to believe - which has absolutely no bearing upon whether a thing is actually true or not - as truth/reality does not change based upon opinion, only ones perception of what an unknown or uncertain truth does.

An infinite number of universes, eh? But with in THIS boring one, there only appears, so far - despite many years of searching - to be only ONE planet teaming with life. Why would such infinite possibilities not be seen at both the macro and the micro levels? Are there an infinite number of "copies" of you? Of AUDIE???!!! God forbid! Or RICK!!! And my wife would probably add me to that list as well. You know, I love mythology and sci-fi as much as the next fellow, but make no mistake about it, belief in endless universes / parallel ones, this is simply belief based upon the conjecture of possibilities. Again, wild speculation does not equal truth! And entertaining endless possibilities for our origins should logically not cause one to rule out one VERY obvious One!

PaulSacramento wrote:

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

Our local little "big bang" may be but one of an infinite number of them.

The "Big Bang" was what set in motion/expanded the UNIVERSE, not our solar system or galaxy.
By definition, it was the beginning of our universe so there were no others.

Suture self, as the doctor kit would put it. But I didnt say "solar system" or something so dimwitted as that.

Define away, our universe, as we parochially like to term it, may be one of an infinite number of such.

Any evidence of that?
No one takes the whole "multiverse" thing seriously, since there is ZERO evidence for it.

Guess again.

PaulSacramento wrote:

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

Audie wrote:
Possibly so, I believe the sun is hot and bright, that getting hit by a car is quite painful. Can you choose not to so believe?

I refuse to believe that you don't understand this conversation and the degrees there are of how we believe or choose not to believe things.
I think you are being hard headed about the very simple fact that we CHOOSE as to whether we believe something or not.
And I am not sure WHy you are being this way.

We choose to believe that the people in our lives love us ( as an example) based on the evidence we have for that ( how they treat us for example). We choose to believe that, using your example) getting hit by a car will hurt ( even if we have never been hit by one) because the evidence that it will hurt is reasonable to us.
Yes, a person can choose NOT to believe that getting hit will hurt us, but that would go against reason based on what we know about us and cars.
Point being, quite simply, everything we believe is a choice that we make to believe.

I kind of thought all along that the key to being religious is a great capacity for self deception.

Or irreligious it seems.

Well, as 'we" are down to quips, that "seems" to be it for this strand of thought.

Guys,

Leave Audie alone. If she chooses...wait sorry. She can't choose...

Audie doesn't see the evidence for God, so she doesn't believe in Him. But she chooses...dang it there's that word again...she believes in the possibility of an infinite number of universes, even though there's no evidence for that.

Maybe one day she'll use her God given logic.

Philip wrote:

Paul: Point being, quite simply, everything we believe is a choice that we make to believe.

Which also obviously means we can choose what to believe and what NOT to believe - which has absolutely no bearing upon whether a thing is actually true or not - as truth/reality does not change based upon opinion, only ones perception of what an unknown or uncertain truth does.

An infinite number of universes, eh? But with in THIS boring one, there only appears, so far - despite many years of searching - to be only ONE planet teaming with life. Why would such infinite possibilities not be seen at both the macro and the micro levels? Are there an infinite number of "copies" of you? Of AUDIE???!!! God forbid! Or RICK!!! And my wife would probably add me to that list as well. You know, I love mythology and sci-fi as much as the next fellow, but make no mistake about it, belief in endless universes / parallel ones, this is simply belief based upon the conjecture of possibilities. Again, wild speculation does not equal truth! And entertaining endless possibilities for our origins should logically not cause one to rule out one VERY obvious One!

Uh, so, what is your point here?

I dont care to get into whether there are infinite universes.

It was presented that there is this great evidence for god, based on something having to do in part with time, which Einstein I believe said was itself just an illusion.

Philosophy based on an illusion is at least as nebulous as the multiverse theory which does at least have some sort of empirical basis, or so I hear.

RickD wrote:Guys,

Leave Audie alone. If she chooses...wait sorry. She can't choose...

Audie doesn't see the evidence for God, so she doesn't believe in Him. But she chooses...dang it there's that word again...she believes in the possibility of an infinite number of universes, even though there's no evidence for that.

Maybe one day she'll use her God given logic.

Since you never say anything you actually mean, this opinion if that is what it even is, is of less merit than if you did mean it.

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:Guys,

Leave Audie alone. If she chooses...wait sorry. She can't choose...

Audie doesn't see the evidence for God, so she doesn't believe in Him. But she chooses...dang it there's that word again...she believes in the possibility of an infinite number of universes, even though there's no evidence for that.

Maybe one day she'll use her God given logic.

Since you never say anything you actually mean, this opinion if that is what it even is, is of less merit than if you did mean it.

I know you are but what am I?

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:Guys,

Leave Audie alone. If she chooses...wait sorry. She can't choose...

Audie doesn't see the evidence for God, so she doesn't believe in Him. But she chooses...dang it there's that word again...she believes in the possibility of an infinite number of universes, even though there's no evidence for that.

Maybe one day she'll use her God given logic.

Since you never say anything you actually mean, this opinion if that is what it even is, is of less merit than if you did mean it.

I know you are but what am I?

Good good, now I counter with "I am rubber, you are glue".

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

Our local little "big bang" may be but one of an infinite number of them.

The "Big Bang" was what set in motion/expanded the UNIVERSE, not our solar system or galaxy.
By definition, it was the beginning of our universe so there were no others.

Suture self, as the doctor kit would put it. But I didnt say "solar system" or something so dimwitted as that.

Define away, our universe, as we parochially like to term it, may be one of an infinite number of such.

Any evidence of that?
No one takes the whole "multiverse" thing seriously, since there is ZERO evidence for it.

Guess again.

There Is evidence for multi universes?
Please share.
And no, the bible doesn't count, even though it does state that there is at least ONE other plane of existence then this one.

The closest there was for "evidence" for the multiple universes was in 2010 with that whole silly Stephen M. Feeney thing about the WMAP data that was proven to be incorrect when better and more through studies were done with a better satellite.

BUT if you have NEW evidence, please share.

Maybe those that hope there is a multi universe ARE reading the bible:

For a start, how is the existence of the other universes to be tested? To be sure, all cosmologists accept that there are some regions of the universe that lie beyond the reach of our telescopes, but somewhere on the slippery slope between that and the idea that there are an infinite number of universes, credibility reaches a limit. As one slips down that slope, more and more must be accepted on faith, and less and less is open to scientific verification. Extreme multiverse explanations are therefore reminiscent of theological discussions. Indeed, invoking an infinity of unseen universes to explain the unusual features of the one we do see is just as ad hoc as invoking an unseen Creator. The multiverse theory may be dressed up in scientific language, but in essence it requires the same leap of faith.
— Paul Davies, A Brief History of the Multiverse

Of course one of the interesting issues IF they find evidence for another universe is that the bible, as I stated above, DOES mention an alternate plane of existence, a different "universe" from ours, Heaven.
As one astrophysicist commented when asked about the multi universe VS Big Bang and how it relates to creation:
Either way it doesn't look good since the bible states that the universe came to be in a single act of "creation" ( big bang) and that there is another plan of existences besides this one, heaven ( multi universe).