Point 1: Perspective
Manfer84 wrote:Jlay, I just got back from a weekend on the beach, it was great by the way
, and found quite the answers.
I think that everything you say about God is true, that's why I have never been able to renew my believe in him.
Let me make sure I understand. You believe what I say is
true. Please, keep in mind, this is not simply what I 'think', or 'say' about God. But, this is what the Bible reveals about Him. That is how a good teacher is recognized. If my testimony is not in line with the scriptures, then it should be rejected.
You are right, If I kill someone I wouldn't expect a judge to forgive me, whether or not I turned into the Pope afterwards, but if I just happened to lie a couple of times about minor stuff and not regret it (like I think everyone has done it at least once) I think the judge would find me innocent.
Did you notice what you just did? This is called trying to 'justify' one self.
Justification is the central issue. I will address that at the end of this post. Again, you try to condone your own sins, by what? By, comparing yourself to everyone else. And I quote, "Everyone has done it at least once." So, let me ask you. If everyone murdered just once, would murder be any less serious of a crime? Is that how we judge the seriousness of a crime, by how many people have committed it? Of course not.
Now, if we are being perfectly honest, then we also have to admit that we've all lied more than a couple of times. But why stop at lying. Let us see how Jesus describes the character of God and the standard of His righteousness.
Manfer, have you ever had feelings of anger or hate towards another person? Jesus says in Matthew 5:21-22, that you have murder in your heart.
Have you ever looked at someone with sexual thoughts. Matt. 5:27-28 says that you are an adulterer at heart.
--Because of the nature and character of who He is, God sees you as a lying, murdererous, adulterer at heart.
If God were to judge you according to His glorius standard, would you be innocent or guilty?
Again, this gets back to perspective. Your perspective on lying is very low. God's is infinately higher. You are saying that God should judge according your your perspective. Keep in mind what you are doing here. You are judging God. And your beef is with how He is judging you? But how can God violate His own character, and overlook your lies, lust and hate? He can't and won't. Would it be fair to say that If this God exist, that you don't like Him because He won't bow His knee to you, and your perspectives? Aren't you saying that you are qualified to judge God, but He is not qualified to judge you?
I know you don't see your lies as that serious. Hitler didn't view exterminating human life as serious either. You can see how amongst mankind perspective can vary dramatically. So, under the same conditions, how can you or I judge Hitler's actions to be wrong? In fact, how can any of us make judgments in regards to morality? Do you feel qualified to say that Hitler was wrong? I would hope so. How? Because you know there is an objective standard of right and wrong that Hitler crossed. Sadly, the line that you see so clearly in this instance, is the same one that is distorted in your view in regards to your lies.
In your situation, you are applying your own value system to how the judge of the universe, should see you. You are saying, that because you feel this way, that God shouldn't judge you. Couldn't Hitler do the same?
Perspective. If you know anything about military service, you know that there is a chain of command. How does the fresh private view a smudge on his shoes, or a lump in his made bed? Probably not a very big deal. But when the drill Sergeant sees these things, the Private learns that he is under a new standard. Now, what if the Private says, "In my opinion, that is not a big deal. Everyone has had a smudge of their shoe." Do you see how the Private's low standards don't rank when it comes to his military standing?
Through God's word, and through our conscience, we learn that there is a moral standard far higher than our own. This standard is at war with us. It exposes us. (Romans 3:20) There are two ways we can react. We can admit that something is horribly wrong between ourselves and our creator. Or, we can reject the standard. We see this play out in our own world. Can you think of instances where a child has rebelled and rejected the authority of his parents? Criminals also do this. It is not that they do not understand the law. It is that they have rejected the law. They place their own desires in higher position than the law.
But like you said, when it comes to God you can't wish for him to be what you want, you take him as he is (of course after accepting his existence and all)
Doesn't sound to me like your problem is accepting his existence. Like you said, You believe what I say is
true. It sounds like your problem is that your own self sovereignty is at stake. And like many of us, you don't like the idea of being subject to a standard of morality that is at war with your own. So, a very common response is to imagine a god who better fits what you want. Or, to imagine away god all together. Based on our conversation, it sounds as if your issue is not belief. But your issue is one of trust. Do you trust that the God of universe really has a plan? Do you trust His wisdom over your own? Why should you trust Him?
Point 2: Position
Does God understand your position?
Also that was the stuff that bothered me when I used to believe in God. I just think (this is only my opinion I don't know nor care if some shares it) that a supernatural being capable of everything we could ever and never imagine, all that stuff that's suppose to be true about God (omnipotence, onmi ….everything), would see the world in black and white, by the way you make it sound God doesn't even bother to see the shades of gray in a persona life.
I hope I haven't made it sound such a way. The bible says, "For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted." (Heb 2:18)
And, "For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been
tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews 4:15)
The best way to put it, is that Jesus has walked a mile in our shoes. He TOTALLY understands our
position. Like I said before, God is not waiting there to clobber you with a ball bat. Do you understand that Christ literally stepped into the court room and paid your fine? Because of this, justice has been served. You couldn't pay the fine. So, God paid it for you. He settled your debt. Why?
LOVE. Real love. Not ooey, gooey emotional fluff. Greater love. God put Himself in your shoes, lived a life as a human being, facing all the temptations we did. Yet, He never sinned. And what was His reward? He died in humiliation in your place. And for this, God does not ask you to join a religious group. He doesn't ask you to become a monk and clean all the junk out of your life. He simply says, "Trust in me." Now, remember what I said earlier about justification. Read here what Paul says in Romans 5:1 about being justified. "Therefore, since we have been
justified through faith, we have
peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."
How are we justified? Not by trying to dumb down our sins, by comparing ourselves to other people. Not by subscribing to the I'm OK, your OK philosophy. Not by trying to distort who God is, so we can feel better about ourselves.
We are justified simply by trusting in who He is, what He has said, and what He as done.
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord
"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious
