Evidence for God from Science

jabez wrote:Hello Felgar, nice to meet you!
Can I get back to you more fully shortly? But in the mean time, can you point me to the thread where you were discussiong salvation --- I haven't been able to find it....

Thanks!

jabez

Take your time, I'm so busy lately it's been hard keeping up on here anyways.

One such thread where we discussed salvation was http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... php?t=1367 where I also posted the scriptural basis of those questions I had asked you. Unfortunately not much discussion occured; maybe eveyrone agreed with me.

What started Kurieuo and I thinking about those questions was this thread about the Trinity, http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... php?t=1339 and in particular part-way through the Trinity the question came up about what defines Christianity. http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... ght=#20260 Check back 10 or so posts from that point to get caught up.

We've also had some great discussions long ago. There was a very heated discussion on OSAS (once saved, always saved) http://discussions.godandscience.org/viewtopic.php?t=59 where Jac (who's opinion I very much respect) clarifies the distinction between justification and sanctification.

And with much searching, I finally managed to dig up this old thread, where we had a very good discussion regarding faith and salvation. I never did post my final response to Lyouki; one of these days I still want to. http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... php?p=8023

I very highly recommend that you certainly read through the last two links (the last one is much shorter), esspecially considering the effort it was to track them down.

Hello Felgar

Thanks for taking the time to dig out the discussion URLs... I've looked at all of them, and found them interesting. So good that everyone is digging deep to understand what is the TRUTH

My reply to you (to enable you to begin to understand my faith, as you said all those days ago!) will be simple and not too long, I hope --- it's based on my own understanding as a student of Christian Science who is still praying to understand this Science in all its ramifications! For the definitive statement on Christian Science, you need to read Mary Baker Eddy's seminal book Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures, which students of the religion study in order to help us understand and live according to the message of the Bible.

Christian Science starts from the basis of the ALL-ness and ONLY-ness of God, -- God who is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent Spirit, Love. (We use capitals when words are synonyms for God.) And the man created by God in His own image and likeness -- therefore spiritual and loving -- is acknowledged as the only REAL condition of man.

As we get to know and love God through the study of the Bible and in particular the teachings of Christ Jesus, His presence and power in our lives brings man's innate perfection into focus and this heals and restores whatever was amiss. This may be the healing of disease, it may be learning to love with a Christlike love, it may be forgiving in a way which completely washes thought clean of rancour or envy or hatred or revenge, it may be doing better at school as we express God's omniscience... the list is endless

We strive to "let this mind be in [us] which was also in Christ Jesus" so that we can bring a healing thought to whatever claims to usurp God's presence and power. You can tell from this that we consider the quality of our thoughts to be very important

There's one passage from Science and Health (p 496ff) which summarises the basis from which we think and act:

Question. — Have Christian Scientists any religious creed?

Answer. — They have not, if by that term is meant doctrinal beliefs. The
following is a brief exposition of the important points, or religious tenets,
of Christian Science: —
1. As adherents of Truth, we take the inspired Word of the Bible as
our sufficient guide to eternal Life.
2. We acknowledge and adore one supreme and infinite God. We
acknowledge His Son, one Christ; the Holy Ghost or divine Comforter;
and man in God's image and likeness.
3. We acknowledge God's forgiveness of sin in the destruction of sin
and the spiritual understanding that casts out evil as unreal. But the
belief in sin is punished so long as the belief lasts.
4. We acknowledge Jesus' atonement as the evidence of divine,
efficacious Love, unfolding man's unity with God through Christ Jesus the
Way-shower; and we acknowledge that man is saved through Christ,
through Truth, Life, and Love as demonstrated by the Galilean Prophet in
healing the sick and overcoming sin and death.
5. We acknowledge that the crucifixion of Jesus and his resurrection
served to uplift faith to understand eternal Life, even the allness of Soul,
Spirit, and the nothingness of matter.
6. And we solemnly promise to watch, and pray for that Mind to be in
us which was also in Christ Jesus; to do unto others as we would have
them do unto us; and to be merciful, just, and pure.

Sorry you've had to wait so long!

Jabez

Hmmm... Very interesting. Thanks for sharing with us jabez.

While I think I could take a guess at your answers based on your post, I feel it would be best for clarity if you answered my original 3 questions from your own heart.

The first thought that comes to my mind is whether the repentance of sin is the same as rejecting belief in sin. But maybe that's jumping the gun a bit, before getting your answers to the original 3 questions.

Hello again, Felgar (and anyone else who may be following this thread),

Of course I'll be more explicit in my answers to your questions, although I won't answer yes/no --- important questions like these merit rather more --- Also, I see that one of your respondents has expressed uncertainty about the terminology you use, and that would be true for me too. And I don't want language to create barriers, when it should be aiding communication

1 Do you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe that He was raised from the dead?

In my heart I know and acknowledge Christ Jesus as the Son of God, Lord, Master, Teacher, Wayshower, the Truth and the Life (and more!). And I accept unreservedly his resurrection and subsequent ascension. There's a chapter in Eddy's Science and Health entitled "Atonement and Eucharist", which contains a moving record of these Biblical events, and their significance for mankind's redemption.

2 Do you believe that you are a sinner who is justified freely by God's grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus?

I cannot believe that God, who is perfection itself, created a sinning man (in His image and likeness!?). I believe that God's man is now, always was and always will be the perfect effect of that one and only perfect Cause. However, I do acknowledge that I don't measure up to that reality at this stage of my understanding and that through Christ Jesus' teachings and example --- his crucifixion, resurrection and ascension ---, and through the present influence of the Christ in my daily experience, I am shown more and more clearly that we ARE the children of God, and how to live my life accordingly. Paul spoke of it (1 Cor 13:12) as seeing "through a glass, darkly", as opposed to seeing face to face... You'll know that passage very well Does this answer your question?
I think I managed to answer most of your question below at the same time...? Sorry!

3 Do you believe that you are born again with the blood of Jesus through the repentance of your sin and your acceptance of Jesus and the sacrifice that He has made on your behalf?

I believe what Christ Jesus told Nicodemus --- that we need to be born of water and of the Spirit. That this new birth comes each time I catch a glimpse of God's love, or feel His presence; or when I learn to be more humble in doing God's will (rather than my own); or be more pure in my thinking; whenever I succeed in "putting off the old man"....

From the same chapter in Science and Health that I mentioned before... this will tell you how Christian Science (not just jabez!) responds to your questions:
"While we adore Jesus, and the heart overflows with gratitude for what he did for mortals, — treading alone his loving pathway up to the throne of glory, in speechless agony exploring the way for us, — yet Jesus spares us not one individual experience, if we follow his commands faithfully; and all have the cup of sorrowful effort to drink in proportion to their demonstration of his love, till all are redeemed through divine Love."

God bless

jabez