Evidence for God from Science

BGoodForGoodSake wrote:Well next we will examine the factors more closely and see how they interact.
And we will answer this question, why not add one more step to make the process even faster?

Last time I stated the above. Now before we can examine the factors more closely we need to know what a protein really is? And how they work.

hardhttp://www.friedli.com/herbs/phytochem/proteins.html

medium (3 links)http://web.mit.edu/esgbio/www/lm/protei ... acids.html
http://web.mit.edu/esgbio/www/lm/protei ... ebond.html
http://web.mit.edu/esgbio/www/lm/protei ... cture.html

easierhttp://folding.stanford.edu/science.html[/i]

easyhttp://www.historyoftheuniverse.com/protstru.html

Good, I hope everyone got a good undersatnding from the article.

Basically proteins work by how they are shaped. Shapes give the protein unique physical and chemical(how it interacts) properties. A certain shape can allow a protein to withstand high pressures and temperatures! A shape can even cause a protein to become like other chemicals or compounds!

Well lets take a look at the factors now. You can see that from a simplistic sence the many factors act on the ones below them in a chain. Lets go to the managent analogy from a previous post.

Suppose we have Bob an accountant, and Mary supervises Bob but also has the responsibility of payroll. Josh supervises Mary and has the role of vice president. Now one day the company decides to hire someone else to take the same responsibilities of Josh.

In the protein world this would be analagous to duplicating a gene which encoded for lets say Factor IX.

Does duplicating the protein have any noticible effects on the system?
And how does this duplicated gene effect any sort of selective pressures on the entire mechanism?

We will examine this next time in our attempt to tackle the questions:
How do the factors interact?
What happens if I add an additionalstep to the cascade?

BGoodForGoodSake sure likes to preach blasphemy and lies. Do you even read ANY of the links you post? I wonder if he asks people to help him out after we post a rebuttal to his lies. Again, get Michael Behe's book - Darwin's Black Box - and stop spreading your lies like diseases. Come up with your own material genius, if you are such a brainiac, post YOUR material here, not someone elses, since you said you want to take your own approach to this.

Thinker wrote:BGoodForGoodSake sure likes to preach blasphemy and lies. Do you even read ANY of the links you post? I wonder if he asks people to help him out after we post a rebuttal to his lies. Again, get Michael Behe's book - Darwin's Black Box - and stop spreading your lies like infections. Come up with your own material genius, if you are such a brainiac, post YOUR material here, not someone elses, since you said you want to take your own approach to this.

Was there something wrong in the links I posted? If there is let me know, I just wanted everyone to have a basic understanding of how proteins work.

That it is the shape of the protein which determines its properties and that it is the sequence of amino acids which determines its shape. Do you disagree?

Thinker wrote:BGoodForGoodSake sure likes to preach blasphemy and lies. Do you even read ANY of the links you post? I wonder if he asks people to help him out after we post a rebuttal to his lies. Again, get Michael Behe's book - Darwin's Black Box - and stop spreading your lies like infections. Come up with your own material genius, if you are such a brainiac, post YOUR material here, not someone elses, since you said you want to take your own approach to this.

Brian my Friend... You need to step back away from some of these threads for a bit. You need to relax and take a breather.

bizzt wrote:

Thinker wrote:BGoodForGoodSake sure likes to preach blasphemy and lies. Do you even read ANY of the links you post? I wonder if he asks people to help him out after we post a rebuttal to his lies. Again, get Michael Behe's book - Darwin's Black Box - and stop spreading your lies like infections. Come up with your own material genius, if you are such a brainiac, post YOUR material here, not someone elses, since you said you want to take your own approach to this.

Brian my Friend... You need to step back away from some of these threads for a bit. You need to relax and take a breather.

How? How can I possibly ignore something like this? BGoodForGoodSake is just is an atheist, preaching to the choir (us), and his preaching sucks. Does he even understand what a discussion is? BGoodForGoodSake - "Tomorrow I will continue with more of my BS and try to convert you all to belive me, this is a matter of it's my way, or your way is wrong!" Why installments BGood, why not continue, or is the climb just too much for one day and you need to consult material and other people because you can't refute the science portion of the members here?

Thinker wrote:

bizzt wrote:

Thinker wrote:BGoodForGoodSake sure likes to preach blasphemy and lies. Do you even read ANY of the links you post? I wonder if he asks people to help him out after we post a rebuttal to his lies. Again, get Michael Behe's book - Darwin's Black Box - and stop spreading your lies like infections. Come up with your own material genius, if you are such a brainiac, post YOUR material here, not someone elses, since you said you want to take your own approach to this.

Brian my Friend... You need to step back away from some of these threads for a bit. You need to relax and take a breather.

How? How can I possibly ignore something like this? BGoodForGoodSake is just is an atheist, preaching to the choir (us), and his preaching sucks. Does he even understand what a discussion is? BGoodForGoodSake - "Tomorrow I will continue with more of my BS and try to convert you all to belive me, this is a matter of it's my way, or your way is wrong!" Why installments BGood, why not continue, or is the climb just too much for one day and you need to consult material and other people because you can't refute the science portion of the members here?

I'm not trying to preach. =(
Mayby I'm comming across the wrong way?
August, Kurieuo, bzzt, am I doing something wrong?

Thinker wrote: How? How can I possibly ignore something like this? BGoodForGoodSake is just is an atheist, preaching to the choir (us), and his preaching sucks. Does he even understand what a discussion is? BGoodForGoodSake - "Tomorrow I will continue with more of my BS and try to convert you all to belive me, this is a matter of it's my way, or your way is wrong!" Why installments BGood, why not continue, or is the climb just too much for one day and you need to consult material and other people because you can't refute the science portion of the members here?

Dude! Relax... We are talking Science and BGood is only talking about just that. Yes behind his thoughts maybe Atheism but he has not gone against Christianity and I think the Discussions have been rather Thoughtful and very Interesting. The reason why I am telling you to take a break or regain your thoughts is because you are taking this as a personal attack against your Faith. Brian your Faith is Growing Stronger as the days go on but trust in God and believe in him. Don't attack somebody because they are questioning your Faith. Just be prepared to answer.

Ok?

BGoodForGoodSake wrote:

Thinker wrote:

bizzt wrote:

Thinker wrote:BGoodForGoodSake sure likes to preach blasphemy and lies. Do you even read ANY of the links you post? I wonder if he asks people to help him out after we post a rebuttal to his lies. Again, get Michael Behe's book - Darwin's Black Box - and stop spreading your lies like infections. Come up with your own material genius, if you are such a brainiac, post YOUR material here, not someone elses, since you said you want to take your own approach to this.

Brian my Friend... You need to step back away from some of these threads for a bit. You need to relax and take a breather.

How? How can I possibly ignore something like this? BGoodForGoodSake is just is an atheist, preaching to the choir (us), and his preaching sucks. Does he even understand what a discussion is? BGoodForGoodSake - "Tomorrow I will continue with more of my BS and try to convert you all to belive me, this is a matter of it's my way, or your way is wrong!" Why installments BGood, why not continue, or is the climb just too much for one day and you need to consult material and other people because you can't refute the science portion of the members here?

I'm not trying to preach. =(
Mayby I'm comming across the wrong way?
August, Kurieuo, bzzt, am I doing something wrong?

I am not seeing anything wrong with what you are doing. I think Brian is getting tired of people questioning God. Sometimes it is like "WHY DO PEOPLE NOT GET IT"! I understand your reasoning etc however for Brian it has been shown so plainly to him who God is that he wants everyone to have that same Vision that (at least IMO) he gets frustrated that people don't see it. I don't know if I am correct Brian but that is what I see in you.

bizzt wrote:

BGoodForGoodSake wrote:

Thinker wrote:

bizzt wrote:

Thinker wrote:BGoodForGoodSake sure likes to preach blasphemy and lies. Do you even read ANY of the links you post? I wonder if he asks people to help him out after we post a rebuttal to his lies. Again, get Michael Behe's book - Darwin's Black Box - and stop spreading your lies like infections. Come up with your own material genius, if you are such a brainiac, post YOUR material here, not someone elses, since you said you want to take your own approach to this.

Brian my Friend... You need to step back away from some of these threads for a bit. You need to relax and take a breather.

How? How can I possibly ignore something like this? BGoodForGoodSake is just is an atheist, preaching to the choir (us), and his preaching sucks. Does he even understand what a discussion is? BGoodForGoodSake - "Tomorrow I will continue with more of my BS and try to convert you all to belive me, this is a matter of it's my way, or your way is wrong!" Why installments BGood, why not continue, or is the climb just too much for one day and you need to consult material and other people because you can't refute the science portion of the members here?

I'm not trying to preach. =(
Mayby I'm comming across the wrong way?
August, Kurieuo, bzzt, am I doing something wrong?

I am not seeing anything wrong with what you are doing. I think Brian is getting tired of people questioning God. Sometimes it is like "WHY DO PEOPLE NOT GET IT"! I understand your reasoning etc however for Brian it has been shown so plainly to him who God is that he wants everyone to have that same Vision that (at least IMO) he gets frustrated that people don't see it. I don't know if I am correct Brian but that is what I see in you.

I see,
Brian I am in no way discounting God. In fact many scientist come away with a feeling of awe at the fact that the universe appears to have such complexity based on a few simple principals.

These principals are unexplainable and outside of the realm of science. We just know that they exist. If this doesn't point to God then I don't know what does. However this is for each individual person to accertain. In other words it is a subjective conclusion.

I am only attempting to illuminate the science of biochemistry as latest understanding has it. Conclusions outside of this paradigm are not being discussed because they cannot be related scientifically.

To put it simply I beleive that irreducible complexity is a subjective observation. And I wish to share the reasoning behind my conclusion.

Suppose we have Bob an accountant, and Mary supervises Bob but also has the responsibility of payroll. Josh supervises Mary and has the role of vice president. Now one day the company decides to hire someone else to take the same responsibilities of Josh.

In the protein world this would be analagous to duplicating a gene which encoded for lets say Factor IX.

But, you wouldn't be hiring a new protein-you'd be hiring Josh's twin, who can only do the same Josh as has been doing. Cloning a gene gives you redundancy, and I'm pretty sure that one of them shuts off and doesn't work-meaning that there is nothing that will work on it to improve it-because natural selection, if it worked, has to act upon something that's doing something...

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:

Suppose we have Bob an accountant, and Mary supervises Bob but also has the responsibility of payroll. Josh supervises Mary and has the role of vice president. Now one day the company decides to hire someone else to take the same responsibilities of Josh.

In the protein world this would be analagous to duplicating a gene which encoded for lets say Factor IX.

But, you wouldn't be hiring a new protein-you'd be hiring Josh's twin, who can only do the same Josh as has been doing. Cloning a gene gives you redundancy, and I'm pretty sure that one of them shuts off and doesn't work-meaning that there is nothing that will work on it to improve it-because natural selection, if it worked, has to act upon something that's doing something...

Very good point!
Thank you KMart! This will be addressed tomorrow or asap in the next post.

Hey Bgood, get on with it, it's rather hard to follow this piece by piece.

Seriously though, can you maybe finish your whole explanation and post it all at once, and let us ask questions on the whole thing? I understand you want to bring us along gradually, but it's clearly not working.

August wrote:Hey Bgood, get on with it, it's rather hard to follow this piece by piece.

Seriously though, can you maybe finish your whole explanation and post it all at once, and let us ask questions on the whole thing? I understand you want to bring us along gradually, but it's clearly not working.

Ok! =P
I have to disagree with that last point though, it seems that KMart has joined the discussion.
=)

I'll hurry it up, Its just that I have been so busy lately.

Perhaps I can skip my golf game this weekend?

Don't cancel golf, that just isn't right....

August wrote:Hey Bgood, get on with it, it's rather hard to follow this piece by piece.

Seriously though, can you maybe finish your whole explanation and post it all at once, and let us ask questions on the whole thing? I understand you want to bring us along gradually, but it's clearly not working.

Maybe it's a metaphor...he's gradually getting to the point, in an attempt to make us believe that biological machines and cascades can do the same...but, like them...this just ain't workin'