Evidence for God from Science

Well, no offense but as one who has rejected the Christian faith, I'm not suprised that you are blinded to the reasons why these concepts are obviously intended to undermine Christian faith and therefore why we take offense to them.

What I don't quite see is why Christians take offence of a fictional plot where nothing bad is actually said about, for instance, Christ. What if he had wife and children? Is that something that terrible? To be a married man and father doesn't seem to me any fault, but the contrary, in fact. Anyway, I had the impression, during the reading of the book, that the pressure was directed towards the Catholic Church and not towards the figure of Jesus.

atheist wrote:What if he had wife and children? Is that something that terrible?

Yes it IS something THAT terrible. How could He have been married when we know He ministered, was crucified, rose from the dead, and then ascended to heaven?

There really aren't that many gaps in the account of Jesus... And if you looked carefully I'm sure you'd find that there's no possible way to reconcile this garbage with the Bible. So, the implication is that Jesus did not die, did not rise, and that we are not saved. Indeed, it IS that terrible.

I understand it is terrible to dogma, but not as an attribute to a character. What if Jesus killed a boy, then, or despises family, wouldn't it be worse than just get married and procreate?

I really like where WendyWoman is coming from, she is right on the mark as far as the context is concerned. I have noticed over the years that there is one factor shared by most christians that tends to inhibit their expression of their faith, they tend to give the opposition too much power.

The effect of that is to play your opponents game rather than the Lord's. I can tell you for certain that there is no power in heaven or earth that can alter your relationship with God, but you can if you can be talked into it. And even at that God still won't abandon that relationship, the only one who can is you.

The Lord's power and purpose is almost incomprehensible to us and to limit it to our own human context is a mistake, you should never believe anything that tends to limit or deny that, especially where it impacts believers. God will use some of the most apparently odious opponents to do His work.

j316 wrote:I really like where WendyWoman is coming from, she is right on the mark as far as the context is concerned. I have noticed over the years that there is one factor shared by most christians that tends to inhibit their expression of their faith, they tend to give the opposition too much power.

God will use some of the most apparently odious opponents to do His work.

Point taken j316... It just seems to be a shame that so many may be led astray by such misinformation.

Also consider that we're called to be the light of the world. To me that means for us to stand up and say that this is wrong, when something of this nature comes along. If we don't, who will?

atheist wrote:I understand it is terrible to dogma, but not as an attribute to a character. What if Jesus killed a boy, then, or despises family, wouldn't it be worse than just get married and procreate?

but it is not a True Attribute of his Character then it is Bad! That is where most Christians get offended by. Just like if we lied about Science or about for Example Stephen Hawking or Gould. Some would want to set the Record Straight right. The same goes for us defending Jesus's Character.

but it is not a True Attribute of his Character then it is Bad! That is where most Christians get offended by. Just like if we lied about Science or about for Example Stephen Hawking or Gould. Some would want to set the Record Straight right. The same goes for us defending Jesus's Character.

Certainly, I see your point. I just thought that maybe it was because Jesus was so contrary to family values in the scriptures.

atheist wrote:

but it is not a True Attribute of his Character then it is Bad! That is where most Christians get offended by. Just like if we lied about Science or about for Example Stephen Hawking or Gould. Some would want to set the Record Straight right. The same goes for us defending Jesus's Character.

Certainly, I see your point. I just thought that maybe it was because Jesus was so contrary to family values in the scriptures.

Contrary to family values?

Atheist?
Now I'm totally confused. Please explain what you meant when you stated that "Jesus was so contrary to family values in the scriptures."

Moving on to a word people are using here...character. I guess that word, in this instance, is entirely unfitting. The reason? Some are suggesting that Jesus, after reading this book, was flawed in character and are willing to accept that possibility as no big deal. It's not a big deal, it's a HUGE deal. Why? Not only would that make Him human, but a sinner, too. Again, Christians don't believe that Jesus was a mere human or a prophet, but Divine...of one being with the Father. He didn't have any flaws of character, He was without sin of any kind. So suggesting otherwise is the "greatest untruth" to all Christians. I'd even go one step further and say that, to a Christian, it's betrayal beyond measure to even state such a possibility exists. I hope this explanation helps...

Well... er, yes. There are plenty of sayings in the Holy Scripts about Jesus hating family values.

Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

-Luke 12:51-53

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

-Luke 14:26

For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

-Matthew 10:35-36

The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

-Luke 20:34-36

I'm sure there are more, but I only remember these now. Ah, and of course, he answers rudely to his own mother at the Canaan wedding and also denies his whole family when they ask for him.

Checking all this I imagined that Christians are so mad about the Da Vinci Code because the book presents a Jesus that actually loves and forms a family.

Probably just a shallow understanding of Matthew 10:34-36—also a common verse often twisted by atheists.

Kurieuo.

I often wonder if atheists didn't fail kindergarten english because their reading comprehension skills rival those of rocks.

Well, not really, Kurieuo. Just a literal understanding of everyone of the sayings. And, Mastermind, with all due respect, I learned these as a Christian, so I can tell.

If one was to take everything Jesus said literally, one would also believe Jesus was a plant.

Atheist,
I don't have a lot of time here and won't until after Easter, but I will address your first quote of scripture. Let me first say that often one reads the Bible without fully understanding the intention.

As to Lk 12:51-53

Family Divisions...

While Christ brings peace to an individuals's heart, faith in him at times brings separation to families. Jesus warns us in a straightforward fashion that following him is nt all sweetness and light. Some family members will choose to follow him; some will not. These fundamental differences may cause bitterness and darkness in a family. Hearts filled with pride and prejudice will clash with spiritually restored hearts. And that will break everyone's heart. NIV

The spoken and written word was articulated very differently back then. I'm only suggesting that you keep that in mind.