Evidence for God from Science

I think that particular one looks quite organized like a map of the world.

Again, more anthropomorphisizing. The Ape pictures are just shapes and other things they monkey is playing with, but not true art as we would have it.

And I agree that no animal really comits suicide on purpose, I doubt even the hamster did (it's totally speculated and I've known people with animals that have accidentally killed themselves before, including mice and hamsters.)

I think that particular one looks quite organized like a map of the world.

And?

numeral2_5 wrote:I think that particular one looks quite organized like a map of the world.

Quite organized is not an option, but it can for you. This is freestyle art, how does a monkey know what the world looks like without seeing a map of it? If it saw a map of the world, do you expect the painting to look very similar to the actual thing? I don't believe so.

This looks organized because they could still create organized shapes and colors that they like by repeating a process of strokes and others. if the ape likes it, they'll do it, but it doesn't get that much better unless it's taught. But that doesn't really matter.

Another classic example is the fact that "Koko the Gorilla" was musically artistic, and was allowed to release a CD. The shocking part is the fact that the songs were all written by people and then 'approved' by Koko, which went on her CD, and not to mention that humans are doing the singing.

I did merely speculate about the hamster like I said but I don't think you give animals enough credit. I have seen video of chimps paint and they do use brush strokes unlike elephants who just stab.

Thinker said:

Quite organized is not an option, but it can for you. This is freestyle art, how does a monkey know what the world looks like without seeing a map of it? If it saw a map of the world, do you expect the painting to look very similar to the actual thing? I don't believe so.


I doesn't know what the world looks like I was just using it as a comparison to show you that it looks like something.

Edit:Maybe it does know what the world looks like(you can't read it's mind)

numeral2_5 wrote:I did merely speculate about the hamster like I said but I don't think you give animals enough credit. I have seen video of chimps paint and they do use brush strokes unlike elephants who just stab.

Monkeys don't stab? I believe I have seen it on Discovery Channel that they do. I have also seen elephants stab and stroke.

I didn't say chimps don't stab; I just said they also used strokes.

numeral2_5 wrote:Thinker said:

Quite organized is not an option, but it can for you. This is freestyle art, how does a monkey know what the world looks like without seeing a map of it? If it saw a map of the world, do you expect the painting to look very similar to the actual thing? I don't believe so.


I doesn't know what the world looks like I was just using it as a comparison to show you that it looks like something.

Yes, something.

numeral2_5 wrote:Edit:Maybe it does know what the world looks like(you can't read it's mon)

You're right, I can't read a monkeys mind, but how does a monkey know what the world looks like if it has never seen it? My conclusion is that some force beyond nature gives it this ability to do such a thing. But from what I have seen, this is all speculative.

That's what I've been saying.

How did the chimp know how the world looked like?
I don't think it did but I do think It had something in mind;beit an object, place or feeling.

I never said monkey's didn't think, but I don't think they could create beyond what they have been taught.

I beg to differ.

numeral2_5 wrote:That's what I've been saying.

How did the chimp know how the world looked like?
I don't think it did but I do think It had something in mind;beit an object, place or feeling.

Well in mind, it felt like stabbing/stroking on the canvas. An ape does not know what the complete world looks like from a bird's eye view by object, place, or feeling. We are going in circles.

I don't think that Ape Art 1 was a product of random stabbing/stroking.

numeral2_5 wrote:I don't think that Ape Art 1 was a product of random stabbing/stroking.

Again, we are going in circles. You can think it was not random, but what constitutes as random to you?