Evidence for God from Science

led,
So if I'm understanding what you're after, it's "authority/ministry/chain of command" in the framework of 'public ministry' i.e. pastor, teacher etc. Please let me know if I have this wrong. Since we are talking about woman in ministry, I think it's fitting first for us to read these scriptures describing what these ministries are. I realize we all know what they are , it's just a spring board.
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; (What we lovingly call the 5 fold ministry)
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
According to Paul, these ministries were given 'to' the 'church' for their benefit. Now, in spite of their order of listing, I don't believe any 1 to be deemed more important than another, they are meant to work together in order for the church to function & mature in Christ.

The first thing that caught my attention as I read the above scriptures was 'prophets'. It is part of 5 fold ministry & is a are very public 'oral' ministry. I found that there are many women in scripture called & anointed as prophets.
Mirium — Exodus 15:20
Deborah - *married, had the covering of her husband Lappidoth, Judges 4:4
Huldah - *married, had the covering of her husband Shallum, 2 Kings 22:14
Noadiah - Nehemiah 6:14
Isaiah fathered a child with a prophetress - Isaiah 8:3
Anna - Luke 2:36
Four unmarried daughters who prophesied - Acts 21:7-9
I wanted to be very sure of what God ordained by His own actions so as to set the parameters rightly and not by presumption. I also wanted scriptures that would somewhat fit your circumstance. At this point the scripture does 'seem' to support the fact that married women definitely have a part in public ministry.
I'm going to stop here and wait for your input, I want to be sure I'm heading in the right direction.
~Sharon~

bluesman wrote:I found this great webpage the explains the weaker vessel phrase quite well.

http://members.datafast.net.au/~sggram/f211.htm

I couldn't get the link you gave to work

bizzt wrote:It is interesting... You notice that the below verse talks about the Husband and Wife as a Team. They both Ministered to Apollos.
Act 18:26 and he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more accurately.

You are quite right bizzt, they both did minister (teach) this fellow, and the other thing I find interesting is that I don't see anywhere in which Paul corrects or chastises Priscilla for teaching a man nor Aquilla for allowing her to do so.

bizzt wrote:It is interesting... You notice that the below verse talks about the Husband and Wife as a Team. They both Ministered to Apollos.
Act 18:26 and he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more accurately.

My wife and I are both in ministry right now as a team. She's not my slave. I'm think I missed the point.

Also, You wrote it backwards. In Greek and Hebrew that makes a big difference as far as authority goes. it says "When Aquila and Priscilla heard him...".

I have no problems with my wife working with me in ministry.

My point was that it seems that men and women have very different "ministry" roles. Why are men 99% of the time the ones to be in ministry. Why did God ordain it that way? I guess you could say it's ministry that I'm concerned about, since we are all called to minister/serve.

When you look at the big picture, in the Bible it just seems that whatever the man's role is, the wife is there to help him fullfil it.

oh, and thx for the verses on the women prophetesses. I will look at those.

led wrote:

bizzt wrote:It is interesting... You notice that the below verse talks about the Husband and Wife as a Team. They both Ministered to Apollos.
Act 18:26 and he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more accurately.

My wife and I are both in ministry right now as a team. She's not my slave. I'm think I missed the point.

Also, You wrote it backwards. In Greek and Hebrew that makes a big difference as far as authority goes. it says "When Aquila and Priscilla heard him...".

I have no problems with my wife working with me in ministry.

My point was that it seems that men and women have very different "ministry" roles. Why are men 99% of the time the ones to be in ministry. Why did God ordain it that way? I guess you could say it's ministry that I'm concerned about, since we are all called to minister/serve.

When you look at the big picture, in the Bible it just seems that whatever the man's role is, the wife is there to help him fullfil it.

oh, and thx for the verses on the women prophetesses. I will look at those.

I agree! Women and Men have different roles in Ministry. So if we are all called to minister/Serve then why do you say 99% of the time Men are in the Ministry.
I think Shortcake gave you some great Scriptures like Deborah in Judges but one keeps sticking out and it is this

Pro 31:10 A worthy woman who can find? For her price is far above rubies.
Pro 31:11 The heart of her husband trusteth in her, And he shall have no lack of gain.
Pro 31:12 She doeth him good and not evil All the days of her life.
Pro 31:13 She seeketh wool and flax, And worketh willingly with her hands.
Pro 31:14 She is like the merchant-ships; She bringeth her bread from afar.
Pro 31:15 She riseth also while it is yet night, And giveth food to her household, And their task to her maidens.
Pro 31:16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it; With the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
Pro 31:17 She girdeth her loins with strength, And maketh strong her arms.
Pro 31:18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is profitable: Her lamp goeth not out by night.
Pro 31:19 She layeth her hands to the distaff, And her hands hold the spindle.
Pro 31:20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; Yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
Pro 31:21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household; For all her household are clothed with scarlet.
Pro 31:22 She maketh for herself carpets of tapestry; Her clothing is fine linen and purple.
Pro 31:23 Her husband is known in the gates, When he sitteth among the elders of the land.
Pro 31:24 She maketh linen garments and selleth them, And delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
Pro 31:25 Strength and dignity are her clothing; And she laugheth at the time to come.
Pro 31:26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; And the law of kindness is on her tongue.
Pro 31:27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, And eateth not the bread of idleness.
Pro 31:28 Her children rise up, and call her blessed; Her husband also, and he praiseth her, saying:
Pro 31:29 Many daughters have done worthily, But thou excellest them all.
Pro 31:30 Grace is deceitful, and beauty is vain; But a woman that feareth Jehovah, she shall be praised.
Pro 31:31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; And let her works praise her in the gates.

It is interesting that the Jewish people read this aloud in the Synagogues to their Wives I believe every Sabbath. What a way to appreciate your wife!

bizzt wrote:I agree! Women and Men have different roles in Ministry. So if we are all called to minister/Serve then why do you say 99% of the time Men are in the Ministry.
I think Shortcake gave you some great Scriptures like Deborah in Judges but one keeps sticking out and it is this

Pro 31:10 A worthy woman who can find? For her price is far above rubies.
Pro 31:11 The heart of her husband trusteth in her, And he shall have no lack of gain.
Pro 31:12 She doeth him good and not evil All the days of her life.
Pro 31:13 She seeketh wool and flax, And worketh willingly with her hands.
Pro 31:14 She is like the merchant-ships; She bringeth her bread from afar.
Pro 31:15 She riseth also while it is yet night, And giveth food to her household, And their task to her maidens.
Pro 31:16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it; With the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
Pro 31:17 She girdeth her loins with strength, And maketh strong her arms.
Pro 31:18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is profitable: Her lamp goeth not out by night.
Pro 31:19 She layeth her hands to the distaff, And her hands hold the spindle.
Pro 31:20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; Yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
Pro 31:21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household; For all her household are clothed with scarlet.
Pro 31:22 She maketh for herself carpets of tapestry; Her clothing is fine linen and purple.
Pro 31:23 Her husband is known in the gates, When he sitteth among the elders of the land.
Pro 31:24 She maketh linen garments and selleth them, And delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
Pro 31:25 Strength and dignity are her clothing; And she laugheth at the time to come.
Pro 31:26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; And the law of kindness is on her tongue.
Pro 31:27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, And eateth not the bread of idleness.
Pro 31:28 Her children rise up, and call her blessed; Her husband also, and he praiseth her, saying:
Pro 31:29 Many daughters have done worthily, But thou excellest them all.
Pro 31:30 Grace is deceitful, and beauty is vain; But a woman that feareth Jehovah, she shall be praised.
Pro 31:31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; And let her works praise her in the gates.

It is interesting that the Jewish people read this aloud in the Synagogues to their Wives I believe every Sabbath. What a way to appreciate your wife!

bizzt, you missed my point. "Why are men 99% of the time the ones to be in ministry".

If you followed along, Shortcake and I were talking about the 5 fold ministry.

Agian, thx Shortcake for your comments. I'll look into all that you said.

led wrote:Also, You wrote it backwards. In Greek and Hebrew that makes a big difference as far as authority goes. it says "When Aquila and Priscilla heard him...".

This is correct, in that passage Aquila is named first.
The 2 of them are referenced together 5 times. Once when Paul found a man named Aquila...with his wife Priscilla, once when he sailed to Syria with Priscilla and Aquila, once when Aquila and Priscilla taught the man, once telling the Romans to greet Priscilla and Aquila and once when Aquila and Priscilla send their greetings through Paul to the Corinthians.
The reason I've listed each instance is because you were correct when you said

You wrote it backwards. In Greek and Hebrew that makes a big difference as far as authority goes

As we see here other than when he met them, 2 of the 4 other times they are mentioned, Priscilla is placed first, the other 2 times Aquila is first. They probably 'in ministry' carried the same anointing, but more importantly it shows that Paul had an equal amount of respect of each of them and there work. One more really neat thing I saw as I was doing this is when Paul told the Romans to greet them. It was very 'out of place' for him to put Priscilla's name first in this instance, especially for that time. When presenting a 'couple' the man's name or representation is always presented first i.e. Mr & Mrs. never the other way around. And for a Jewish man to break with this is quite unusual I would think.

bizzt wrote:So if we are all called to minister/Serve then why do you say 99% of the time Men are in the Ministry.

If I'm reading this all correctly, I think that this may be a misunderstanding of what led is getting at? I have been doing this to him too. I'm not sure but I don't think he's saying ministry/serve in general such as: love & serve one another, feed the poor, take care of the orphans etc, but more the '5 fold type' of ministry they can be called to??? The 99% I'm assuming is just represenative of 'a really large portion'.

I guess you could say it's ministry that I'm concerned about

led, are you talking of 'High Profile' ministries? That you don't see many women presented in this way? Like 'John the Baptist', Elijah' 'Paul' and so forth?You were so right about it being hard to bring our ideas across in text. (My paraphrase)

~Sharon~

Shortcake wrote:
led, are you talking of 'High Profile' ministries? That you don't see many women presented in this way? Like 'John the Baptist', Elijah' 'Paul' and so forth?You were so right about it being hard to bring our ideas across in text. (My paraphrase)

~Sharon~

And I'm sure that most of it was caused by me, so I'll try to improve.

The Bible doesn't show many women presented in the 5 fold ministry. Is there a reason for that or just happened that way. If there's a reason, which would seem logical, what is it?

led wrote: The Bible doesn't show many women presented in the 5 fold ministry. Is there a reason for that or just happened that way. If there's a reason, which would seem logical, what is it?

Anything we say about this now is going to be purely speculation. There are no scripture that I'm aware of that address this issue.
Logical? Of absolute certainly! And, you are right, there aren't many. I've been meditating on this all day & asking the Lord “What's up with that?” I simply didn't get a direct answer, but I did get what seemed to be an impression related to this subject, and that is, to see the fact that there IS representation of women called rather than the number involved. Simply put, The fact that they ARE, even if it was only 1, is what matters and shows that God truly does call some women that are willing, and it is within the will of the Lord.

The why or reason for a much smaller amount of women is anybody's guess. We can theorize, for instance, given how God has set up for a woman to be under a male authority, I would hardly think that under normal circumstances God would cross over His own statute and call to ministry any women who's husband would not sanction & bless it. In the days of the early church, women were very much still considered to be an object of possession, not many husbands would have released their wives in the capacity of the 5 fold ministry, they just didn't hold that type of status in the eyes of men. The teaching regarding women had just begun. Today however, men are much more apt to do this. As a result (I'm assuming) might be one reason why we see so much more of it???
~Sharon

This website should be back up now. It worked for me.

http://members.datafast.net.au/~sggram/f211.htm



Mike the Bluesman

bluesman, concerning the link you provided, it was very well written, thankyou for sharing it with us!