Evidence for God from Science

Let's see.

God created the world, and left it under our dominion. It was his great love gift to us, and we basically said "Thanks, but it's not enough. I want this other stuff that's...well, okay, it's basically garbage, but it's fun garbage and I want it anyway." And in doing so, we dived into the junkyard of sin and covered outselves in the filth.

At this point, we deserve the worst punishment God can dish out. We are not innocent. We are not basically good. And God would be neither cruel nor unjust in giving us the worst punishment ever -- a punishment that makes the worst sufferings we can experience on earth pale in comparison. And we deserve it. We really, really do.

So what does God do? He doesn't immediately cast us into hell and forget about us. No, He gives us a promise of salvation. For a while we just give offerings in imitation of this coming salvation as a measure of faith, and then one day He finally follows through on His promise just like He told us He would.

So then the sacrifice takes place. And it's a crucifixion. Crucifixion was so shameful that it wasn't even talked about. To do so was a social faux pas of the highest magnitude. In fact, it was rarely ever even written about! The gospels are the most complete account of a crucifixion from this period ever recorded because of this. He didn't just die -- He went through the worst humiliation and shame that the people could dish out.

He did this because He loves us. He did this because He wants us with Him. He did this because, in the word of Rick Warren, He would rather <B>die</B> than live without us.

Now let's look at the benefits of following Christ. Eternity in a place filled with joy, pleasure, love, and absolute bliss. We're talking eternity. That's like trillions and trillions of years, plus infinity. Our joy will never end. Ever. Compare this time period to our 70 - 100 years on earth. It doesn't even compare.

Now let's look at the downsides of following Christ. Well, first, we will suffer. Perhaps continuous suffering for the rest of our natural lives. Second, we will experience hatred from others. Persecution. And a whole host of other unpleasant things like trials, tests, and temptations.

Now let's do the little "scale" thing with our hands. On the one hand, you have anywhere from a day to 90 years of potential suffering that's almost unbearable at times. Depends on how long this life of yours lasts. On the other hand, you have trillions upon trillions of years of absolute bliss that will never end.

Yeah...it's normal to get a bit upset when it comes to suffering. I mean, it's not pleasant, and it can be pretty unbearable at times. But when you think about what God has <B>already</B> done for you, and what He has planned for you in eternity, it kind of brings your suffering back into perspective.

It's a result of us being imperfect beings in an imperfect world. But one day old things will pass away, and all things will become new. We will be made perfect, and will live in a perfect world with our perfect Creator in perfect, unending bliss. A lifetime of suffering...well, it's really nothing compared to what He did for us, and what He will continue to do for us through eternity.

Wow; I can summarize my thoughts on this in one sentence;

"If you dont know you have a chance at salvation, what does it matter?"


Jared

You do know you have a chance at salvation, so that statement doesn't apply to you.

Jared,

Either you're just looking for sympathy or you don't really know much about Christianity. Basically, if you are breathing, God is still standing there knocking. So quit your whining and turn back to Him...before He has to do something drastic to get your attention. Because if He wants to get your attention, He can surely keep you from stopping Him.

But, on the other hand, if you use your freewill to end your life, it's all over but the crying. Then you have forfeited His offer of salvation and chosen your path, the one you somehow (with you huge infalible mind, right ) think will offer less suffering.

Whatever you do, I'll respect you for making that decision, God respects it enough that He won't interfere with your will to do it, so I guess I can give you that same bit of respect.

You don't seem to have much respect for God and you think you have somehow figured everything out and in your mind God must be evil to allow suffering. If you continue in that direction you will one day see what real suffering is...and then you will understand why God did things the way He did, but it will be to late.

Good luck my friend.

Later

CountryBoy;

I dont need drastic, I need personal.

Jared

I can see the appeal to the liberality you talk about, that is, in believing to have discovered anything you want to matter in life matters since nothing really matters anyway. So you could "walk up to [me] with a 9MM, put it in [my] face, tell [me] to pray for protection from God, and then pull the trigger." You could use your SIG P226 and take your own life. Yet, it is silly of you to mention God here. For "no" meaning only applies if God does not exist. Don't get me wrong, I don't recall you saying everything is meaningless, but it is evident in just about every sentence of your post you believe this to be the case. And so if God oppresses you, and you take your life, God has the power to reinstate your life physically or spiritually to oppress you further. If God exists, and you live life as though it is meaningless, do you really think you have the power to escape God by taking your own life?

One thing I will give you, is that you appear to have reached a logical conclusion with your beliefs. Not many think deep enough to realise what you have if the world is devoid of God. You just better "pray" you chose the right position to make consistent.

Kurieuo.

If you really want to see a miracle, then you need to at least take a small step toward God. Attend a good church and see what happens. Or join up with a Christian missions trip - there are plenty spiritually happenings in third-world countries, and it's only made all the more obvious being surrounded by people who are on fire for God.

God's Love and His grace a like a fountain in a hall, it's free to anyone who wants it. This is possible through the sacrifice He made for US. But you still have to go and drink. Right now you can't even see the fountain; maybe it's around the corner and you need to move forward a bit to see it.

Jared,

Personal...He died for you on the cross.

CountryBoy;

That was 2000 years ago. I've committed "Blasphemy against the holy spirit" I can't hinge on that anymore. Not without some confirmation that I have a chance.

Jared

Jared,

You need a sign huh?:oops:

Well, I was sorta where you are in my life a few years back, and I just had to keep hanging onto the word of God, and being around people who believed the word of God. I truly thought I was never gonna be able to come back to God. I believed that Jesus was the Messiah, and all that good stuff, but that wiley ole devil, since he knew he no longer had my soul, just convinced me that he did, so I would be miserable for the rest of my life. I had many thoughts of suicide myself, just to take my family out of the misery I was putting them through, because I knew I was going to hell sooner or later, may as well be sooner for their benefit. This was one of the great sufferings that I had in my life, much worse than any physical suffering I could ever encounter.

But I got through it, by the sheer grace of God. You just have to keep on brother, that's satan, not God, putting those LOST ideas in your head.

Get that Bible out and start reading it again, sleep with it under your pillow. Go to a God fearing church that believes when you get saved, you stay saved. We're not holding onto Jesus brother, He's holding onto us...and He will never let go. We can never lose our salvation, but we can lose the joy of our salvation.

But if you thought you got saved, and you are now questioning wheather that was a real salvation experience or not, just renew it. God's up there pulling for us, not against us, He loves you regardless of how bad we are or thing we are. If you are scared to death of hell and you fear God, then you can't possibly have blashemed the Holy Spirit. If you were in that state, you would be very clear conscienced and ambivelent about God. You are anything but that.

My prayers are with you, I'm starting to feel more like I know where you are coming from now.

In Christ

Thanks Pal; But I'm hung up on the blasphemy issue.

I know that the Bible states it as one without pardon.

I won't repeat the things I said or did to God back when. I wont tell you the deal I made with Satan when I renounced Jesus. But it was bad enough that it would be worthy of a blockbuster movie.

Jared.

Jared,

That's just it...it's nothing more that a fiction movie. You can't make a BINDING deal with satan, but you can with God.

God can't lie, satan can't tell the truth. Deals with satan are worthless, deals with God are eternal.

Later

I know that the Bible states it as one without pardon.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is that you continue to push Him away until you die and are unable to accept His grace. That is what will grieve the Holy Spirit.

As long as you are alive, you cannot commit an unpardonable sin. Come as you are means just that.

Later Brother

CountryBoy wrote:We're not holding onto Jesus brother, He's holding onto us...and He will never let go. We can never lose our salvation, but we can lose the joy of our salvation.

That is inspired. I'll remember that first phrase.

Thanks Felgar,

I kinda thought it was inspired myself...when I heard someone say it

So it's not original, but always will be valid.