i really dont know where to start

[valko]

jorge puedes agregarme cuando kieras a tu msn o si kieres postear tu direccion aki y asi nos comunicamos :3

now, turgonian, thx for answering the questions, just a comentarie, i posted the questions here so we could discuss the ones that have no answer in the website so you can skip the ones that already have an answer there

P.S. seriouslly turgonian add me to your msn, i dont want to keep posting, id ont have the patiente or the time to post daily so i would prefer if you add me to your msn so we can talk there (in case anyone here dont remember my msn is V1_gal@hotmail.com) or post your msn here so i can add you

[Turgonian]

But I don't agree with all the answers.

I don't have MSN either... You don't have to post daily; you can wait until I've finished answering the other ones, and ask questions about the ones you want discussed. As school is going to start for me, I don't care if you wait 1 or 5 days.

PS Jorge S was right: if you're willing to learn, you will learn.

[Turgonian]

And...the final part!

26. Should we believe Jonah? Why not? The Bible makes clear it was rather out of the ordinary. Seriously, if God can make a big fish swallow a person, do you think he will forget about the oxygen or the acids?

27. Should we believe the Sun stood still? It is possible, but not probable; the Hebrew words allow for the interpretation that the Sun actually burned less brightly (because of e.g. clouds). This is more probable than the explanation that the day was prolonged, because Joshua and his army had already marched one day and a half and were likely tired of marching in the full sun! This is explained in a part of this article.

28. What did the animals eat when they left Noah's ark? No idea; maybe carcasses, or plants. Anyway, Noah had presumably taken food into the ark, so there might have been food left.

29. Why did God let Catholics imprison scientists? Why doesn't Ethical Atheist hunt up the divine decree that says they could? Does he think a Catholic is a lot more holy than a random other man?

30. If the disciples spread the word to everyone, how did they get across the oceans before sea-worthy ships were ever built? (Note the bigotry…pirates had been around for many centuries already -- what does EA think they sailed on, tree logs?) However, the word used for the 'world' is oikoumene and refers to the inhabited world as it was known in that time: the Roman Empire. The disciples could easily have spread the Gospel throughout the Roman Empire during those decades.

31. Why does God say that earth, sun, moon and heavens are fixed on pillars? He says no such thing; maybe EA should take a Poetry Interpretation course. If we talk about 'the ends of the earth', it doesn't mean we're stupid, but we're using figurative language.

32. Why didn't the animals die off after the Flood? Studies have indicated that one male and one female wouldn't be enough to let a species survive. Did things work differently back then? Possibly, yes -- due to a lot of genetic mistakes that hadn't spread yet. (And according to others, the Flood wasn't global. I don't endorse this position, but some educated people do. Either way, it's possible.)

33. Why does God say he created two lights, when the moon doesn't generate any light? Isn't that a false statement? No -- the moon gives light, even though it doesn't generate it. And don't we still talk about 'moonlight'? Whether you take Genesis 1-2 literally or not, it's still not a scientific treatise. In the same way we can talk about 'moonlight', Genesis can.

34. How are we to believe we are created from dust, when there's lots of evidence we evolved from other creatures? Really? So how did an ape develop religion, mysticism, art, &c.?

35. Why do many of God's followers refuse medical treatment? 'Many'? I would like some statistics. Some guys from the Word/Faith group ('blab it and grab it') and some very fundamentalistic Christians who think taking medical treatment is implicitly distrusting God. However, the Bible nowhere encourages conclusions like these. So why do a number of Christians refuse medical treatment? The magic word: ignorance!

36. This question is too stupid to believe… 'The Bible appears to have an error with regards to how long Noah's flood lasted. Genesis says it was 40 days in one part and 150 days in another. Which is it? Why did you let this error exists in your Holy Word that we are supposed to believe is 100% accurate and true?' No, not at all: Ethical Atheist needs to purchase new reading glasses, and to understand the concept of 'puddles'. The rain lasted 40 days, but when it stopped, the water on the ground didn't immediately dry up. EA can ask a scientist why this is so.

37. Is God really going to turn the moon into blood before the Second Coming? What if He will? However, it is a lot more likely that He will not, and this is just prophetic hyperbole from a kind of books known as the 'apocalyptic genre', which uses a lot of 'heavy' images to get its point across. (For instance, a prophet predicted the destruction of a city, which has indeed happened; he also predicted this city would burn eternally, though no smoke has been seen for the last few centuries. This is another case of prophetic hyperbole. People in those times wouldn't have taken him so literally.)

38. What does 'day' mean? This site provides a study on the word yom. However, I'm not an OEC at the moment, so I'll skip the question.

39. Did Adam really live 930 years? Did his direct descendants also reach a similarly old age? Isn't man living longer and longer? Hadn't God yet 'created all the illnesses and disease that He's given us now'? I believe it's evolutionists who keep talking about genetic mutations; well, that is what happened. As a result of the Fall, disease came into the world. If EA wants to complain about the evil in the world, he shouldn't complain when God punishes it.

40. 'Why do we find evidence of all the creatures that lived before us, yet most of them are not mentioned by you?' What does EA think the Bible is supposed to be -- a list of all existing animals? 'And, why do we not find evidence of some of the species you mention in the Bible like fiery serpents or giants that towered over us like we were grasshoppers?' Maybe this also belongs to prophetic hyperbole, maybe not; anyway, 'fiery' may refer to the effects of the serpents' poison. Today we say someone is 'burning with fever': he isn't really burning, but he feels abnormally warm as a result of the fever. It's possible that the 'fiery serpents' were also 'fiery' in this way.

41. 'Why did God let Hitler massacre so many people'? What if a greater number of people were saved because of the Second World War? 'Why was the Catholic Church silent on this genocide'? Because the Church consists of humans. 'What happened to “Thou shalt not kill”?' It was still valid, but Hitler didn't care. Like I said, it's a commandment, not a statement; and justice shall be done in the end. 'He said he was carrying out your will. Was he?' Was Pharaoh carrying out God's will when he kept the Israelites as slaves? Even if Hitler was within God's plan, he would still have been disobeying God and going against God's direct will. 'If so, what part of your plan did this fulfill?' God wants to keep all foolish atheists happy. Apart from that, trust Him to have a better and more all-encompassing plan than EA can think up. 'If not, why didn't you stop him?' Because humans are responsible. If God would immediately stop every evil act, we'd all be incinerated by now.

42. Why did God allow the American natives to be murdered? See above; God doesn't directly intervene most of the time.

43. If God made all the creatures on earth, why does sacrificing animals make God happy? It doesn't really; see Psalm 40:6-8, for instance. However, God is concerned about the eternal salvation of mankind, and ancient people were very responsive to symbolism.

44. Why does God punish babies for the wrongdoings of their parents? To show other parents that they have a responsibility. If babies suffer because of what their parents do, there is often a direct correlation -- God isn't randomly punishing babies. For instance, if a mother smokes during pregnancy and the baby is deformed, the baby suffers because of the mother's irresponsible behaviour; if a father is an alcoholic and beats his child, the child suffers because of his father's wrongdoing, but not because God is punishing him -- simply because the father is being irresponsible.

45. Why has God given us logic and reason, but doesn't want us to apply these skills to Him? Surprise -- he doesn't mind at all! (Provided, of course, one is being objective…) The word used for 'faith' in the NT, pistis, is also used to describe evidence in a law court. God wants us to think about Him. He explicitly commands us to serve Him not only with our hearts, but also with our minds.
However, God will not be discovered by presumptuous reasoning -- if man thinks he's a lot smarter and morally a lot better than God, he will probably come nowhere.

46. Why did God create the forbidden fruit if He didn't want Eve to eat it? As a test of faith -- as a choice to love. Why did God create the serpent -- was God afraid Eve wouldn't eat the fruit without the serpent? Well, the serpent had little to do with it; Satan tempted Eve, and he was created good by God. Like Adam and Eve, he used his free will destructively. 'Is this a game to God?' Take into account God's unswerving love for sinners, and you will have the answer. A very good article about this 'Gutripper Question' can be found at Christian Thinktank.

47. Why did God give us dominion over the earth? Because we're the only ones who can communicate with God and use the power of reason, though an objective observer would have difficulty believing it if he read EA's questions. EA thinks the 'list of God's creatures we made extinct is endless', which I put in the 'prophetic hyperbole' section. EA asks if God will please take this power away from us. Maybe we should simply develop a sense of responsibility. By the way, is EA already doing something for nature, or is he blaming God for something that He doesn't do while He could do it, whereas EA could do something and doesn't do it either?

48. How old is the earth? God gave us plenty of evidence to indicate it wasn't 8-10 thousand years old, 'as the Bible says'. I wonder if EA can give me that text, and the question is whether the 'evidence' is being interpreted correctly in the first place. Even if they are, it doesn't undermine the Bible; ask any OEC here.

49. Why are all the translations of the Bible so different? Because language changes, and different people have different ideas about how books should be translated. Be glad God allowed the Bible to be translated (Muslems say you can't translate the Quran), otherwise we'd have to rely on a few people who knew Hebrew and Greek. (Of course those people can have some say in how the Bible should be interpreted, but everyone can understand the basic message of the Bible.)

50. This one is more complicated… It claims that Jesus's death was not the ultimate sacrifice, because He knew He was going to sit at His Father's right hand shortly. My answer: if EA goes to the dentist who tells him 'now, this pain will only last two minutes' (without anesthesia!), does that lessen the pain itself?
EA compares this to another sacrifice and appeals to gut feelings to demonstrate that Jesus's sacrifice meant less. Maybe EA should try being innocently crucified himself. However, the pain was only secondary; the 'substutionary atonement' was mainly about shame. Here was the Son of God, who could have chosen to sit and be glorified in heaven, while He willingly underwent the greatest amount of shame possible (God >> accursed criminal) to save His people.

51. EA claims God can't forgive sins because He has committed sins Himself: 'unleashed a flood, killing the entire planet's population' (and probably getting a lot more people to salvation, because almost everyone was ungodly and violent; besides, the world's population wasn't that big at the time); 'asked a man to sacrifice his son to prove his loyalty' (as a test of faith, yes; He saved the son afterwards, but EA conveniently fails to mention that!); 'tormented another man, solely that I could prove to someone the man would remain devoted to me' (it was more to teach Job than to teach Satan, probably; God gave everything back doubly, having confirmed Job in his faith, having taught his friends the lesson that self-righteousness is bad, and having comforted many Christians in their own struggles by this story). God cannot sin.
Also note: instead of being presumptuous, Job humbly says, 'The Lord has given, the Lord has taken; the name of the Lord be praised!' God, our Creator, certainly has the right to take back His gifts whenever it pleases Him. Rest assured that He will always do so in love.

52. Why do people worship a God who killed 'millions' (???) of non-believers by fire or flood, while they wouldn't tolerate this behaviour from the leader of a country? First, because a politican is not a creator and has no right to destroy his fellow creatures. Second, because God always gives plenty of warning, and does not punish because people do not believe in Him, but because they commit acts of atrocity! Check the biblical accounts: God only punishes an entire nation when they have been sinning grossly for some time, and when they have been warned enough.
You can't complain about the evil in the world, and then whine when God punishes a people which has been sinning for a long time -- after all, wasn't divine punishment what you wanted in the first place?

53. Why does God's personality 'seem to depend upon the personality of His followers'? It doesn't, although different people will stress different aspects of God. Try talking with Joe's father, and then with Joe's child. They will tell different stories about Joe; does that make Joe's personality depend on his relatives (or suggest that Joe does not exist at all)?

54. Are we free to make our own choices? If so, how can God open up an opportunity: isn't any opportunity the result of someone else's free choice? Yes, but God still holds the ropes…

55. Shouldn't atheists be treated with compassion, rather than with religious defense mechanisms? After all, they 'don't have a supernatural connection'. Maybe they should, but 'compassion' in biblical times was far more practical than our kind of compassion. Besides, 'com-passion' literally means 'suffering together' -- and when an atheist makes clear he sees more 'suffering' in every other position than his own, how could we suffer along with him?
Besides, compassion may involve harsh (not cruel) deeds or words. Jesus certainly had compassion, but sometimes He had to take measures, like chasing impious people out of the Temple or calling theologians 'whitewashed tombs'.

56. About a footballer with a rather ungodly lifestyle who thanked God when he could pick up the ball… This was probably not due to divine intervention in the first place. God rarely suspends natural laws, so we can use our reason and investigate the world.

57. Mr Brauch wants God to vaporize a few non-believers to make sure everyone believes in Him, apparently ignorant of the word 'longsuffering' (and weren't people complaining about God punishing non-believers?). He wants to know why atheists lead happy lives (one wonders if he's read Dostoyevski), when Christians get persecuted (well, most of them aren't, and true believers have a 'peace unlike the world gives it!' -- so much for unhappiness). Mr Brauch asks, 'Huh god? Can you answer that one god?' Sure, and so could Asaph, after learning something in God's school; cf. Psalm 73. It's brilliant.

58. Why isn't God managing Hell? Because there's nothing to 'manage' -- God leaves people alone.

59. If we are all God's children, why is Jesus so special? Duh -- He is both God and man. He is 'the only-begotten Son of God'. All others are God's 'adopted children'.

60. 'If all atheists are sinners and are going to hell, then the definition of an atheist is one who does not believe in a higher power, why isn't God in hell?' Shaky logic here -- if all atheists are sinners, then an atheist is somebody who doesn't believe in a higher power…? No, an atheist does not believe in a theos, a supernatural power. If God wouldn't believe in a theos, he would be in a state of self-denial.
However, people do not go to hell for not believing in God; they go to hell because they have sinned. If an atheist could keep the law perfectly, he would be allowed into heaven. However, he can't (and neither can any Christian).

61. Question from a doctor… Why does the family thank Jesus when the patient lives, but sues the doctors when the patient dies? Well, I wouldn't sue a doctor if a relative of mine died (except when he would have made a mistake); if he would live, I would thank God and the doctor. I believe that everything in my life -- good things and bad things -- are given by God; however, he often uses people for accomplishing His goals.
Thanksgiving is for acknowledging both God's goodness and His sovereignty.

62. Somebody without much of a philosophical background disagrees with the statement, 'The universe is created, so it must have a creator, so God exists.' He maintains you have to exist somewhere. If God exists in another universe, another God -- say, a Super-God -- must have created that universe.
The question is whether God really needs a 'somewhere'. After all, He is not made of matter. He is infinite and the beginning of everything; He is outside of time and space.

63. Here's an even stupider one…someone who has only the vaguest grasp of what the Bible says. 'Why does the bible have an “Old Testament” and a “New Testament”? Didn't you get it right the first time? If you are infallible, why did you need an update?' The word used for 'testament' means 'covenant'. There was an Old Covenant -- with the Jews, who were promised a Messiah -- and since the Messiah has come, there is a New Covenant now, into which the whole world can enter. You might as well ask why history books need updates…

64. It goes downhill, because this one makes no sense at all. (Quote from flash movie:) 'It goes a little something like this': if there are so many exclusivistic religions in the world, then most people are wrong. If one religion is right, most people consider that one wrong; so which religion is right? May I point out that 'atheism' isn't an answer, becaust most people on the planet disagree with atheism too. Whatever position you take, most people on the planet are going to disagree with you, so the thing to do is to find out what is really true. The Resurrection, for instance -- if it is true, then we can assume Christianity is true. It would be a good idea to critically examine which theory is the most likely one: is it true, is it a delusion, a myth or conscious deceit?

65. 'Why are people almost always the same religion as their parents are?' (If that's true, I wonder why there are so many atheists nowadays.) This question -- which is more of a polemic -- goes on about being 'brainwashed', apparently oblivious to the fact that atheism is also a religious position and can also include 'brainwashing'.
'Would you be a different religion if you'd been taught a different one as a child?' First, I am a human, not a religion , and second, I might adhere to a different religion, yes. However, I am not stuck in the brainwashing stage. I'm opening my eyes, examining the evidence for Christianity and trying to determine my own theological position. If atheists only ask old questions that have been answered by theologians four centuries ago and are still being answered on apologetic websites, small wonder I haven't converted to atheism yet.

[valko]

hello everybody im back

ive been thinking about what you told me in the disscusion about the begginoing of the universe, the universe AS WE KNOW IT had a beggining, but something cant come from nothing thats why god is not a very believable answer, because it violates the second law of thermodynamics (something that christians often use to deny evolution) and is why an eternal universe is a good possibility, by example before the big bang the universe DID exist but in a different condition, because nothing can come from nothing is one of the reasons why creationism isnt very scientific, and why i personaly believe in thee eternal cycling universe

check this link http://www.thekeyboard.org.uk/Why%20doe ... 0exist.htm

and im not sure if you checked the link i posted about evolutionism terms but if you havent please check it

P.S. maybe i can post with a little more frequency from now

P.S.2 OMG this thread is almost 4 pages long

P.S.3 check the links in the page i linked especially the one called "atre all religions false?"

[Canuckster1127]

God is no less a reasonable answer for the beginning of the universe than presuming it just happened. In fact, I believe God in this regard is more reasonable, but that is admittedly my bias.

All these new theories do, in this regard, is push back further the untimate question and need for a first cause. It doesn't eliminate it.

[Turgonian]

hello everybody im back

Welcome back!

ive been thinking about what you told me in the disscusion about the begginoing of the universe, the universe AS WE KNOW IT had a beggining, but something cant come from nothing thats why god is not a very believable answer, because it violates the second law of thermodynamics (something that christians often use to deny evolution)

Something can't come from nothing. However, God can make something out of nothing -- something He doesn't often do (as far as we know), but He might very well have made the universe.
The law of thermodynamics is more evidence for God than for an eternal universe, which leads us into the next part of your post:

and is why an eternal universe is a good possibility, by example before the big bang the universe DID exist but in a different condition, because nothing can come from nothing is one of the reasons why creationism isnt very scientific, and why i personaly believe in thee eternal cycling universe

According to the Law of Entropy (the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics), everything slowly runs out of energy, except if it is empowered by a source outside of it. E.g. a driving car runs out of fuel, except when somebody fills the tank again.
If the universe would be eternal and would have nothing -- no energy source -- outside of it, it would lose energy. This is why it can't be eternal.
God, on the other hand, would not be subject to the Law of Entropy. He is not consuming himself like the sun, but He is unchanging. That's why the law disproves an eternal universe (which would be subject to the laws of physics), but not God.

I checked your last link, but I didn't think it provided much in the way of argumentation. It was essentially saying 'I think the universe doesn't need a creator, it could be random'. Well, if it's random, then the thoughts of the writer would also be random combinations of atoms...

I haven't yet checked the link you posted underneath the link to the questions by 'Ethical Atheist'.

I hope you'll be able to post here frequently -- maybe we can answer your questions.