Evidence for God from Science

zoegirl wrote:If you were using that as an illustration, then my apologies....I guess I am reading the comment about the English class as something you would be ok with. If that is not the case, then certainyl I am not speaking directly to your situation

However, I would still make that point to the hypothetical person who does this.


Also, you imply that your homosexuality is the reason I am assuming you are lusting after every....

No, my response was to your comment about the guy in English class, that;s it.

I have given every indication of understanding the temptation to think thoughts of sexual nature.

Woops... just saw your post. Yes, it was hypothetical. The guy in my English class is hot, but I never thought about having sex with him.

Ah, ok, we're good then

zoegirl wrote:Ah, ok, we're good then

Why is it that we like to elevate the sin of homosexuality above so many other grievious sins? Heterosexual sexual sin is just as bad as homosexual sexual sin isn't it?

FFC wrote:Why is it that we like to elevate the sin of homosexuality above so many other grievious sins? Heterosexual sexual sin is just as bad as homosexual sexual sin isn't it?

Yup. That was my point.

I think most of those participating in this thread agree to that

zoegirl wrote:I think most of those participating in this thread agree to that

Yes, but...
http://www.godhatesfags.com

Not all Christians do.

YES,

Canuckster's point about our defeciencies hits home

Harry12345 wrote:

zoegirl wrote:I think most of those participating in this thread agree to that

Yes, but...
http://www.godhatesfags.com

Not all Christians do.

This Scripture rings True everytime there are sites like that...

Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Except for the fact that

1) the vast majority of women in the porn industry are abused, start too young, etc

2) the major object of porn is to feed lust, to create objects out of people, not promote healthy relationships

3) porn focuses of dominance and hatred.

4) your argument that it is ok rests on the fact that "we all do it" nad "it's natural" which is a convenient argument for things we want to do. But if we use that argument for many things that we all do, we would be in a lot of trouble. (cheating, lying, stealing, jealousy, etc) And because of the existence of those that use it, even secretely, does nothing bu prove that it is tempting, it does nothing to prove its rightness.

5) you are simply wrong about it's non-effects. Porn feeds desire. MOst pedophiles start with porn and while you can argue that they would be pedophiles without, it still has a negative effect.

nobible wrote:

zoegirl wrote:Except for the fact that

1) the vast majority of women in the porn industry are abused, start too young, etc

2) the major object of porn is to feed lust, to create objects out of people, not promote healthy relationships

3) porn focuses of dominance and hatred.

4) your argument that it is ok rests on the fact that "we all do it" nad "it's natural" which is a convenient argument for things we want to do. But if we use that argument for many things that we all do, we would be in a lot of trouble. (cheating, lying, stealing, jealousy, etc) And because of the existence of those that use it, even secretely, does nothing bu prove that it is tempting, it does nothing to prove its rightness.

5) you are simply wrong about it's non-effects. Porn feeds desire. MOst pedophiles start with porn and while you can argue that they would be pedophiles without, it still has a negative effect.

1. No, they're not abused. They choose to work in that field and laws are enforced to make sure that they are of legal age.

2. There are plenty of married and cohabitating couples that watch porn and have no problem with it. In fact, it enhances the sex lives of some, but that's beside the point I made earlier.

3. Some forms of porn may involve domination and violence but so do many action and horror movies. Should we ban those?

4. Your examples of cheating and stealing aren't relevant. Those involve hurting people who typically do not volunteer to get hurt. Somebody watching porn in the privacy of his/her home and enjoying it doesn't affect other people.
By the way, are you suggesting that it's better for someone to not watch porn and sleep around rather than engage in abstinence through watching porn?

5. I suspected you'd bring up the porno encourages rape and pedophilia argument. I reply with this from Wikipedia:

"The effects of Pornography: An International Perspective"[1] was an epidemiological study which found that the massive growth of the pornography industry in the United States between 1975 and 1995 was accompanied by a substantial decrease in the number of sexual assaults per capita; and reported similar results for Japan.

People can argue that there's a relationship between sexual predators and Harry Potter movies because those were found in their homes, but that doesn't make it true.

The morality of pornography is arguable, but to say that the legality of pornography contributes to sexual crimes is unfounded...not to mention that banning it would violate the Constitution.

1. You respond with a universal negative which indicates to me that you're arguing more emotionally than rationally. Why argue that all women involved in the porn industry are not abused? You cannot know that and at best, should be arguing in terms of a majority or plurality.

2. There's no question that porn is extensively distributed and used. Most "couples" don't use it together. It is primarily a male dominated market (although female involvement is increasing). Are you aware of what the citation rate of porn use and online addictions of this nature are in divorce cases? Does that support your contention of a universal negative?

3. Your argument begs the question, should we ban or regulate anything? Do you draw any lines? Is there inherent wrong involved in the purveying of violent, domination that is actual verses other medium you cite which are representative and symbolic in most cases.

4. Porn is universally victimless? Do you know what the suicide and depression rate is among actors and actresses in the sex industry? Is that relevant? Does the "innocent" consumption of the product in the privacy of one's home eliminate the harm in terms of the lives and outcomes of many who are involved in the sex industry? What about the divorce and broken family incidences. Do you believe it is a primary couples consumed item or does it feed in many cases an addictive habit and pattern in the one using it, often in secret, who in turn becomes emotionally and physically less available? Is there a societal impact that accrues from these factors or do you honestly believe there is no impact or harm experienced because technology now allows for anonymous and private access at a higher level?

5. Laws by nature are moral. Legality and efficasy are not mutually inclusive. Arguing for the constitutionally of something (independent of the fact that it is arguable in an of itself) doesn't extend to the realm of morality and advisability.

You have got to be completely delusional to believe that all of the women involved in porn are there because they want to be there. Many of them started young (do you HONESTly believe that all of the regulated porn producers follow the law?!!?) They are taken advantage of and seduced by promises of wealth and security. Many of them come from abused homes and instead of helping them, the producers shepherd them towards more destruction. Hmm, yeah, good industry practices there.

Secondly, there is a huge trend in the porn industry to use computer imaging to create the image of adolescent or pre-adolesecent girls because of some perverted desire for the men watching it. yeah, healthy

Coincidence that the predators online are for young girls??!?

Not to mention that there is tremendous pressure to not follow safe sex procedures (not that these would prevent some of the diseases)


And the basic idea behind porn is simply sex for sex sake, not what is biblical and loving. The women are objects only, serving the men (who DO have much more freeddom of choice in the industry and are much older). Not a picture of loving relationships.

And that alone makes it harmful, not to mention the others. What we present as a society as "relationships" is a good indicator.

zoegirl wrote:I absolutley agree with what you say....after all, single heterosexual Christians are not off the hook as long as they are celibate, are they? They are to adhere to purity of the mind as well, no lusting after the opposite sex. And to constantly guard yourself from lust when it is part of one's nature to notice? ....Oy And heterosexual attraction is right and healthy, and yet God calls us to not lust after another person. Christ called attention to this matter, driving home the point that it is not simply what you do but the thoughts that implicate adultery.

Sexual perfection.. a life completely free and devoid of any sexual impurity married to celibacy. Did even the Shakers attain this? No. Is it even possible? Who here has achieved sexual perfection in mind, body, spirit, and emotions with their life for years on end living completely without sin in this regard? Anyone?

well...ive failed that allready. A-OK(ya u ageofknowledge)

ageofknowledge wrote: Sexual perfection.. a life completely free and devoid of any sexual impurity married to celibacy. Did even the Shakers attain this? No. Is it even possible? Who here has achieved sexual perfection in mind, body, spirit, and emotions with their life for years on end living completely without sin in this regard? Anyone?

From what I've read and know, it's impossible without a gift from God. I believe Jesus' point was that we're all guilty of sin, period. I've heard pastors say this as well, even about themselves having adulterous thoughts. It's our condition and we need to stay close to the Lord to be the best that we can be in this regard.