Evidence for God from Science

FFC wrote:

Enigma7457 wrote:I always wondered what would happen if Adam and Eve had simply repented right away. When God questioned her, Eve blamed it on the snake. When God questioned Adam, he said "The woman YOU put here with me..."

What if they had just acknowledged their sin and repented instead of blaming others?

...and what would have happened if they ate from the tree of life before being confronted by God...and before it became off limits to them?

Nothing - the tree in itself wasn't special. The only thing that made it special was the fact that God said not to eat from it.

Harry12345 wrote:

FFC wrote:

Enigma7457 wrote:I always wondered what would happen if Adam and Eve had simply repented right away. When God questioned her, Eve blamed it on the snake. When God questioned Adam, he said "The woman YOU put here with me..."

What if they had just acknowledged their sin and repented instead of blaming others?

...and what would have happened if they ate from the tree of life before being confronted by God...and before it became off limits to them?

Nothing - the tree in itself wasn't special. The only thing that made it special was the fact that God said not to eat from it.

No, I meant the tree of life, not the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The tree of life was not off limits until they disobeyed God.

Although i believe the trees physically existed, i think they were symbolic. I doubt that simply eating from a tree would have given them eternal life against God's wishes

Enigma7457 wrote:Although i believe the trees physically existed, i think they were symbolic. I doubt that simply eating from a tree would have given them eternal life against God's wishes

But God had mercy on them by removing them from this possibilility....While we don't know the nuances of the mechanics, we know that this was a possibility

FFC wrote: No, I meant the tree of life, not the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The tree of life was not off limits until they disobeyed God.

Well, it would have made their lives slightly longer. The fruit from the Tree of Life requires regular consumption to stay alive.

Harry12345 wrote:

FFC wrote: No, I meant the tree of life, not the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The tree of life was not off limits until they disobeyed God.

Well, it would have made their lives slightly longer. The fruit from the Tree of Life requires regular consumption to stay alive.

HOw are you getting that?

22Then the LORD God said,(W) "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand(X) and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—" 23therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden(Y) to work the ground from which he was taken. 24He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the(Z) cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.

Let me suggest a mechanism as to why the first sin so deeply corrupted our entire natures.

If we start with the idea that to be in the "image of God" means to be His physical representation on the earth, and if we link that to the purpose of man found in Gen 1:26-28, then can say that God wanted man to rule over His creation as a perfect representation of Himself. Just as Jesus freely chose to submit Himself to the perfect will of the Father, so Adam was designed to do this.

When he chose to follow his own desires rather than the desires of God, though, everything changed. He now experientially knew evil. By definition, then, his image is marred. God knows what evil is, but He does know experientially know evil as He has never sinned. Adam, now experientially knowing evil, no longer perfectly reflects God, and therefore, he is incapable of his original purpose.

At this point, then, man's chief desire is no longer to serve God. It is to serve himself. At the end of the day, pride is the basis of all sin. We do what we want to do when we want to do it because we want to do it. But that flys in the face of God's own nature, who considered us more important than Himself, and who "taking on the form of a slave . . . became obedient unto death, even the death of a cross." (Phil 2:4,6,8).

The mechanism, then, is the entrance of pride, which I would define not as an excessive sense of self-worth, but a looking to the self rather than looking to others. "Pride is not thinking alot of yourself. It is thinking about yourself alot," says a pastor in the area I am from. And so all sin, James tells us, stems from our pride, because all sin appeals to our desires.

That, to me, makes even more sense in light of Paul's teaching concerning his own body and the glorified body to come. Though he himself is no longer a slave to sin, his flesh still is (Rom 7:14ff), because he is still in the image of Adam (cf. Gen 5:3). When he is raised again, though, his new body will match that of his new nature; his desire to please himself will be replaced with a desire to please only God. He will no longer have a body in Adam's image, but in Christ's image, and therefore, the first sin has lost its effect in the New Creation.

Thoughts?

zoegirl wrote:

Harry12345 wrote:

FFC wrote: No, I meant the tree of life, not the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The tree of life was not off limits until they disobeyed God.

Well, it would have made their lives slightly longer. The fruit from the Tree of Life requires regular consumption to stay alive.

HOw are you getting that?

22Then the LORD God said,(W) "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand(X) and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—" 23therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden(Y) to work the ground from which he was taken. 24He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the(Z) cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.

In Revelation, it says that the Tree of Life bears fruit once a month. This would be exceedinly redundant if only a one-time usage was required for immortality. Adam and Eve probably DID eat from the Tree of Life before they sinned, hence all the long lives in Genesis; their descendants inherited their 'chunk' of immortality, but it gradually deteriorated as the generations continued.

Harry wrote:In Revelation, it says that the Tree of Life bears fruit once a month. This would be exceedinly redundant if only a one-time usage was required for immortality. Adam and Eve probably DID eat from the Tree of Life before they sinned, hence all the long lives in Genesis; their descendants inherited their 'chunk' of immortality, but it gradually deteriorated as the generations continued.

Interesting. So you are saying it is not sin that shortened the life spans, but the lack of access to the "Life fruit"?

FFC wrote:

Harry wrote:In Revelation, it says that the Tree of Life bears fruit once a month. This would be exceedinly redundant if only a one-time usage was required for immortality. Adam and Eve probably DID eat from the Tree of Life before they sinned, hence all the long lives in Genesis; their descendants inherited their 'chunk' of immortality, but it gradually deteriorated as the generations continued.

Interesting. So you are saying it is not sin that shortened the life spans, but the lack of access to the "Life fruit"?

Well, since the reason we do not have access to the 'Life Fruit' is because of our sinfulness, effectively our life spans were shortened due to sin. But when you get right to it, the lack of fruit from the Tree of Life is what caused the gradual plummet of life spans.

harry1245 wrote:In Revelation, it says that the Tree of Life bears fruit once a month. This would be exceedinly redundant if only a one-time usage was required for immortality. Adam and Eve probably DID eat from the Tree of Life before they sinned, hence all the long lives in Genesis; their descendants inherited their 'chunk' of immortality, but it gradually deteriorated as the generations continued.

It wouldn't necessarily be redundant when you think of the population increases. As more people are born, more would need to eat from the tree, hence it would need to be produced more often.

Also, what verse in revelations is it?

Enigma7457 wrote:

harry12345 wrote:In Revelation, it says that the Tree of Life bears fruit once a month. This would be exceedinly redundant if only a one-time usage was required for immortality. Adam and Eve probably DID eat from the Tree of Life before they sinned, hence all the long lives in Genesis; their descendants inherited their 'chunk' of immortality, but it gradually deteriorated as the generations continued.

It wouldn't necessarily be redundant when you think of the population increases. As more people are born, more would need to eat from the tree, hence it would need to be produced more often.

Also, what verse in revelations is it?

Maybe you only had to eat from it once to have eternal life, but the fruit was so good your desire was to continue to eat from it.

Enigma7457 wrote:

harry12345 wrote:In Revelation, it says that the Tree of Life bears fruit once a month. This would be exceedinly redundant if only a one-time usage was required for immortality. Adam and Eve probably DID eat from the Tree of Life before they sinned, hence all the long lives in Genesis; their descendants inherited their 'chunk' of immortality, but it gradually deteriorated as the generations continued.

It wouldn't necessarily be redundant when you think of the population increases. As more people are born, more would need to eat from the tree, hence it would need to be produced more often.

People won't be 'born' in Heaven. In Heaven there will be:
God and the Angels, Jesus Christ and the Kings (the Saved) who will be resurrected with imperishable bodies and immortal (and therefore do not need life fruit), and the nations, who will not be immortal or imperishable and thus will require regular consumption of the life fruit.

Oh, and the verse is Revelation 22:2.

FFC wrote:Maybe you only had to eat from it once to have eternal life, but the fruit was so good your desire was to continue to eat from it.

Wow this sounds familar.......

Excelent FFC