Evidence for God from Science

Yes, we physically die, but we won't receive eternal life until after the resurrection.

jenwat3 wrote:Yes, we physically die, but we won't receive eternal life until after the resurrection.

It is received the moment one believes. It is the gift given NOW.
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BavarianWheels wrote:

jenwat3 wrote:Yes, we physically die, but we won't receive eternal life until after the resurrection.

It is received the moment one believes. It is the gift given NOW.
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Amen. That point can't be stressed too strongly.

BavarianWheels wrote:

jenwat3 wrote:Yes, we physically die, but we won't receive eternal life until after the resurrection.

It is received the moment one believes. It is the gift given NOW.
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What happens then when I rescind on my belief?Once saved,always saved?

What happens then when I rescind on my belief?Once saved,always saved?

How beautiful His grace is. He is faithful even when we're not.

jenna wrote:

Jac3510 wrote:No one has seen the face of God? Hmm . . . I guess the Bible got it wrong, then.

• "Woe to me!" I cried. "I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty." Then one of the seraphs flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar. (Isaiah 6:4-6)

Anyway, that's something of a tangent. Regarding Sheol, it doesn't do any good to simply assert the the abode of the dead is the grave. I've already pointed out that there is a word for grave: qeber. You've also not taken into account the translation of hades for sheol, so while I appreciate your arguments, they are just bald assertions that run counter to the evidence.

This may be stirring the pot a little, but I did find a verse you may want to read. It is 1John 4:12.

No stirring necessary. The verse says just what it means. No one has ever seen God (the Father). The Father has never manifested Himself soas to be seen by a human being. But, when we love each other, then the Father is revealed in us.

So, what do we do with the fact that the OT says in several places that people have seen God? Simple. We recognize the obvious fact that Yahweh of the OT is the Second Person of the Godhead. The Person Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Abraham, and others saw was preincarnate Jesus. Compare those descriptions with the descriptions of Jesus in Revelation, and you'll see they are describing the same thing.

I think my point stands vindicated regarding this entire issue of Jesus, Hell, "soul-slee", the thief, etc.

God bless

jenna wrote:Yes, we physically die, but we won't receive eternal life until after the resurrection.

That's not what Jesus says.

"Truly, truly I say to you: whoever believes has everlasting life." John 6:47, notice the present tense.

SJohn 5:24 is also interesting, because it says those who believed have passed (past tense) out of death and into life. Just scan through John, and you'll see Jesus always says that the moment we believe, eternal life is something we have immediately.

If you are to take that verse at face value, to say that whoever believes has everlasting life, then it should be taken to mean that person will never die at all, not even once. Is this the case? I don't think it is. This verse simply means that if you partake of Jesus, you WILL HAVE everlasting life. Note also, the apostles believed in Jesus. Are they still alive today? no, but this does not mean they will not have eternal life!

I do take it at face value.

From the same book:

• Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" John 11:25-26

Again, Jesus says that whoever believes HAS everlasting life. So I'll ask you the same question He asked Martha? Do you believe this? Or did Jesus misspeak?

The Bible says we have everlasting life right now. If your theology doesn't allow for that, perhaps you should figure out which part of your theology is mistaken, rather than rephrasing the Bible to make it say something it doesn't?

I think you may have answered your own question, Jac, with your verse. Notice how it says "He who believes in Me WILL LIVE, EVEN THOUGH HE DIES"? Not putting different words in this verse. This means that those who believe do have eternal life, but they will not receive it right away. "EVEN THOUGH HE DIES", they will receive it after the resurrection.

Sure I nioticed. And did you notice he was talking about Lazaras having just died? And did you notice the part where He said, "whoever lives and believes in me will never die"? Of course, this is the same Man who said, "Whoever believes has everlasting life."

Sounds like I answered both our questions.

It sounds like it, yes. Let me ask you this, though. What do you make of the verse Revelations 22:12? " Behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with me, to give to every man". Sounds to me like Jesus will bring His reward when He returns, we don't get eternal life immediately.

Where is eternal life said to be a reward? I know of no such scripture. On the other hand, maybe the reward He brings are the eternal rewards we receive when He returns? (i.e., Luke 19:11-26; 1 Cor 3:13-15; 2 Cor 5:9-10; 2 Tim 4:8; James 1:12; Rev 2:10; etc.)

So what is your take on the "crown of life"? And what other rewards do you think He will bring with Him when He returns? What other reward will we get other than eternal life?

1. The crown of life is the crown that is given to those who persevere in the faith;
2. We will receive various rewards, which I understand to be the extent of our authority on the New Earth, when Christ returns. These will be granted at the Judgment Seat of Christ (already referenced), and distributed at the Lord's Second Coming.
3. I don't understand eternal life to be a reward.