believing in Christ

[johnt]

"Only through Him and with our acceptance of Him". Although a very simple phrase, the word "acceptance" is key to the phrase. I have provided the explanation of acceptance below as it deals with the topic that is being discussed. Acceptance in this context is not simple at all but very difficult. Jesus also tells us to "Follow Him" which is a very difficult way of life and thought as it is an unnatural state of human kind.
What I mean by that is His way of life and thought through His teachings does not come naturally to mankind and takes a different mind set to accomplish which is not in the least easy to acquire. Examples are patience, forgiveness, charity or sharing and doing without just to name a few.


Acceptance
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Acceptance, in spirituality, mindfulness, and human psychology, usually refers to the experience of a situation without an intention to change that situation. Acceptance does not require that change is possible or even conceivable, nor does it require that the situation be desired or approved by those accepting it. Indeed, acceptance is often suggested when a situation is both disliked and unchangeable, or when change may be possible only at great cost or risk. Acceptance may imply only a lack of outward, behavioral attempts at possible change, but the word is also used more specifically for a felt or hypothesized cognitive or emotional state. Thus someone may decide to take no action against a situation and yet be said to have not accepted it.

Acceptance is contrasted with resistance, but that term has strong political and psychoanalytic connotations not applicable in many contexts. Acceptance is sometimes used with notions of willingness: "Even if an unchosen, undesired, inescapable situation befalls me, I can still willingly choose to accept it." By groups and by individuals, acceptance can be of various events and conditions in the world; individuals may also accept elements of their own thoughts, feelings, and personal histories. For example, psychotherapeutic treatment of a person with depression or anxiety could involve fostering acceptance either for whatever personal circumstances may give rise to those feelings or for the feelings themselves. (Psychotherapy could also involve lessening an individual's acceptance of various situations.)

Notions of acceptance are prominent in many faiths and meditation practices. For example, Buddhism's first noble truth, "Life is suffering", invites people to accept that suffering is a natural part of life.

Minority groups in society often describe their goal as "acceptance", wherein the majority will not challenge the minority's full participation in society. A majority may be said (at best) to "tolerate" minorities when it confines their participation to certain aspects of society.

[Jac3510]

How many times have we had this discussion?

Jen, I'm in the easy-believism camp on this, as you have probably read from the thread K linked to. John 20:31 summarizes it perfectly for me:

"These things are written that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and by believing, you may have life in His name."

If a person believes that Jesus is who He says He is--the Christ, that is, the Savior and guarantor of everlasting life--then he is born again and eternally secure. I differ with my more reformed brothers and sisters who believe that works demonstrate true Christianity (apparently, preaching in Jesus' name, casting out demons, and healing the sick, along with being a very righteous person like the Pharisees by keeping the Christian law of loving one another can still land a person in Hell!), as well as on the idea that a true Christian will always produce some sort of good works (I can't think of too many good works that Lot did, and the NT places him in the Hall of Faith. Besides, I'm reminded two of the four soils Jesus talked about that produced no fruit, and yet still believed and were saved.)

I take works to be an indicator of fellowship, not of salvation. Works indicate sanctification, not justification.

[jenna]

Please clarify "sanctification and justification"?

[Jac3510]

Sanctification - the act of God whereby a believer is progressively conformed to the image of Christ.
Justification - the act of God whereby a believer is declared righteous.

The former is practical, daily, and progressive. The latter is forensic, judicious, instantaneous.

edit: Let's keep things simple, Jen. It takes a theologian to muddle the Gospel. Do you believe John 20:31, that everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, has everlasting life? Or do you believe that John left some things out, and NOT everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, has everlasting life?

[jenna]

Ok, keeping things simple. Yes I believe that people who truly believe in Jesus have everlasting life. (I think this was clarified in previous posts). But I also believe that those who TRULY believe that Jesus died for them, they will want to live a "Godly" life. Yes, we are saved by the blood of Christ, but we need to remember that in the end we will be judged according to our works.

[Jac3510]

I agree, but what do you mean by judgment of works? What will that judgment determine?

[jenna]

On this I will have to read up a little more, but the verse is in Rev. 20:12. What the judgement will be, or should I say our reward will be, I have to study up on that. But I THINK that it will be whether or not we enter heaven or the lake of fire. (opinion, not yet verified)

[Jac3510]

Do keep reading and let me know what your conclusion is. In the meantime, I'd ask you this question to keep in mind while you are considering the issue:

If the judgment in Rev. 20 is based on works and determines whether or not we enter heaven, how is that any different from saying that we go to heaven based on whether or not we do those good works? In other words, doesn't that make good works necessary for salvation?

I find a lot of Protestants believe that very thing, but they mask it by putting it all under the umbrella of "faith." You can name any work you want "faith" (i.e., doing good works is just an exercise of faith) and still hold to the "faith alone" creed. That's why I want you to consider the question from a practical perspective. Like I said, it takes a theologian to muck up the gospel.

Like I said before, I believe that "everyone who believes has everlasting life" (John 6:47). EVERYONE. If repentence, good works, perseverence, baptism, or any other such external action is required, then NOT everyone who believes has everlasting life. That makes God a liar, or so says John.

Anyway, happy studying, and merry Christmas.

[jenna]

Exactly what do you mean by "everyone who believes"? Do you mean that everyone who believes Christ is Savior? And while I know it's the thought that counts, I do not celebrate Christmas. But thanks for the thought anyway.

[Jac3510]

Exactly what do you mean by "everyone who believes"? Do you mean that everyone who believes Christ is Savior? And while I know it's the thought that counts, I do not celebrate Christmas. But thanks for the thought anyway.

I mean just what John 20:31 says:

Everyone who "believes that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God" has everlasting life. If you believe that, you are saved. If you don't believe that, you aren't saved. It's simple: do you believe God is telling the truth about His Son Jesus. Most people don't. Most people believe that Jesus was a good man or a prophet or a teacher. They certainly don't believe He is the Christ. They don't believe He is the guarantor of everlasting life. They don't believe He is the resurrection. They believe that to get to heaven, they have to repent, promise to be a good person, and try their hardest to do good. They call that "having faith." When they believe that, they don't believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Savior. They believe something more along the lines that Jesus makes salvation available, but that we have to buy it from Him. We sell Him our life in exchage for salvation. Oddly enough, they don't see how incredibly silly that is. As if me promising to Jesus that I was going to be His servant would be enough to purchase my salvation.

God saves by grace or not at all. You either believe that Jesus is the Christ (meaning He is the one who will raise you on the last day), the Son of God, or you don't. Either you believe that He guarantees life to all who simply believe in Him for it or you don't. Either you, like Abraham, believe God was telling the Truth, or you don't.

[jenna]

Be very careful here. (repeating someone else's words) Even Satan believed that Jesus is the Son of God, and that He came to die for our sins. Just knowing that He died isn't enough. We have to truly accept Him, and the only way to do that is by Imitating His life and following in His footsteps. Many will say "Lord, Lord, but He will say "depart from Me , I never knew you".

[Jac3510]

Where is Satan offered salvation?

And it's funny about the "Lord, Lord" passage . . . those people, if you note the text, did great wonders for Jesus. They preached in His name, cast out demons, and even healed the sick. I'd say they were "living for Jesus." But like the Judaizers that deceived the Galatians, they didn't believe that faith is enough.

That's why I keep going back the text, Jen. John 20:31 says that EVERYONE who believes that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, has eternal life. Do you believe that? Or do you believe that faith alone is not enough, with works also being necessary?

edit: besides, I don't see Lot having walked in the Lord. Just the opposite, in fact, and yet the NT says he was a righteous man. And what of those who are saved "though as by fire"? Apparently, they weren't walking in footsteps of Christ. Hmm . . . maybe obedience isn't necessary for salvation after all? Maybe it is necessary for rewards? Maybe salvation really is a free gift, given only to those who believe?

[jenna]

I am going to bring this up again, because while looking up scripture for another post, I think I MAY have found an answer. This is from James 2:14-26. Since it is rather longI will shorten it some, but you may want to read the whole thing if you choose. "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says they have faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them "Depart in peace, and be warm and filled", but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?"

[FFC]

Good verses Jenna.James is right that if we claim to be saved and have faith in God but don't exhibit any works our faith is pretty worthless and dead. That is only common sense. I just think that that is more of a discipleship issue than a salvation issue.

[jenna]

Good verses Jenna.James is right that if we claim to be saved and have faith in God but don't exhibit any works our faith is pretty worthless and dead. That is only common sense. I just think that that is more of a discipleship issue than a salvation issue.

So if we have the Holy spirit, are we not then disciples?