Evidence for God from Science

Jenna,

2Kgs.2
[1] And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.
[2] And Elijah said unto Elisha, Tarry here, I pray thee; for the LORD hath sent me to Bethel. And Elisha said unto him, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. So they went down to Bethel.
[3] And the sons of the prophets that were at Bethel came forth to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he said, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace.
[4] And Elijah said unto him, Elisha, tarry here, I pray thee; for the LORD hath sent me to Jericho. And he said, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. So they came to Jericho.
[5] And the sons of the prophets that were at Jericho came to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he answered, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace.
[6] And Elijah said unto him, Tarry, I pray thee, here; for the LORD hath sent me to Jordan. And he said, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. And they two went on.
[7] And fifty men of the sons of the prophets went, and stood to view afar off: and they two stood by Jordan.
[8] And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground.
[9] And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.
[10] And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.
[11] And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
[12] And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.
[13] He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan;
[14] And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the LORD God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over.

;o)

Victor

Zebulon, Elijah died and was buried. Notice that it says in scripture that "no man has seen heaven". This would include Elijah.

jenna wrote:Elijah died and was buried.

Where in the Bible it is written?

jenna wrote:"no man has seen heaven". This would include Elijah.

and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

It is not saying: and Elijah went up by a whirlwind and saw heaven.

Victor

You aren't making sense, Z. Elijah would not be in heaven without seeing it. What would be the point of him going?

jenna wrote:You aren't making sense, Z. Elijah would not be in heaven without seeing it. What would be the point of him going?

Jenna, neither Elijah nor Enoch died according to the bible, but that doesn't mean they were in heaven either. It goes back to the theory that OT saints were being held in Abrahams bosom or "paradise" until Christ came and set the captives in there free.

Abraham's bosom was a PARABLE, not an actual place, FFC.

jenna wrote:Abraham's bosom was a PARABLE, not an actual place, FFC.

A parable is an earthly story that tells a heavenly truth.

Well my point was just to figure out if anybody had a clue on how are we going to recognize the 2 Witnesses... But I guess it is likely that someone has to make some research conserning that Reveletion part. Plus, some believers think that Revelation has occured, and thus is not to come.

Victor.

jenna wrote:You aren't making sense, Z. Elijah would not be in heaven without seeing it. What would be the point of him going?

And why should I not making sense? There is people blind right here on earth! And if it's God's plan then it should be... Note that I am not pretending here of telling about God's plan, but still it is written.

2Kgs.2
[11] And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

By the way, in a chariot of fire?

Zebulon (I realize that there is already a Victor here in the forum, so I'll stick to Zebulon from now on ;o)

Zebulon wrote:Well my point was just to figure out if anybody had a clue on how are we going to recognize the 2 Witnesses... But I guess it is likely that someone has to make some research conserning that Reveletion part. Plus, some believers think that Revelation has occured, and thus is not to come.

Victor.

Zebulon, you will recongize them on what comes out of their mouths. It will the TRUTH of GOD's Word.

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

By the way, in a chariot of fire?

Eze 1:4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.

amber H2830 chashmal khash-mal' of uncertain derivation; probably bronze or polished spectrum metal:--amber.

This was the whirlwind that Elijah was carried away in, a round circular object; a round circular vehicle. In many cases where the Scriptures talks about "horses", it is the same wording in the Hebrew as this whirlwind, and though "UFO's" are strange to men, they are not strange to God. The amount of technology that God uses is still far in advance of where the scientists of the the world are today.

When this round circular vehicle, that is the color of highly polished bronze metal appears, it is "unfolding itself", and we see in the Massorah Hebrew text that means that it is "flashing continually". When it appeared from a cloud is nothing new, for God is hiding it and allowing only those that He intends to see it, to observe it.

John 3:13 states that "no man has ascended to heaven". If we are to believe this, then Elijah wasn't taken into heaven. So then where did he go?
2 Kings 2:11 states "And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder, and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven". Throughout the bible, the word "heaven is used to describe three places. First, there is the atmosphere that envelopes the earth; this is the "first heaven". Next, the vast regions of outer space are collectively referred to "heaven"or "the heavens"; this is "the second heaven". Finally the location of God's throne is specifically called "the third heaven" by Paul. (2 Cor. 12:2)Since in John we learn that no man has ascended to heaven, or God's throne, only 2 possibilities remain; outer space or the earth's atmosphere. Since humans cannot breathe in space, the only logical alternative must be that Elijah went to the earth's atmosphere, or "the first heaven". The evidence is that Elijah was taken to a different location on earth, where he lived out his days and died. Further proof; a few years after he had been taken away, Elijah wrote a letter to Jehoram, king of Judah, rebuking him for not following God as his father Jehosaphat did. (2Chron. 21:12). There would be no way for him to send a letter from heaven. Only people still alive on earth write letters!
From "Do the Saved go to Heaven?" by David C. Pack.

Jenna and 7Trumpets,

1- Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven (Kings)
2- no man has ascended to heaven (John)
3- then Elijah wasn't taken into heaven. So then where did he go? (Jenna)
4- Elijah wrote a letter to Jehoram, king of Judah (Chronicals)
5- heaven is used to describe three places (Throughout the bible)
6- only 2 possibilities remain; outer space or the earth's atmosphere (Jenna)
7- This was the whirlwind that Elijah was carried away in, a round circular object; a round circular vehicle.(7Trumpets and, in a way, Kings)
8- Truely I must admit that I like this forum (blink to Kurieuo). I am searching the witnesses of Revelation and I end up with the possibility that one of them is actually driving a flying saucer! (Victor)

I'm totally confused! ...but again, the 8 lines that I have written, have been written by human beings (inspired by God?).

Victor Daniel (my real first and middle name)

Yes, I agree it can be confusing at times. Luckily there are people who can help interpret scripture. I know I need help alot of times.

jenna wrote:Yes, I agree it can be confusing at times. Luckily there are people who can help interpret scripture. I know I need help alot of times.

Very well said. But the word interpret confuses. Just take the facts that in the OT some Prophets ordered to kill and rape children.

Victor Daniel

Zebulon wrote:

jenna wrote:Yes, I agree it can be confusing at times. Luckily there are people who can help interpret scripture. I know I need help alot of times.

Very well said. But the word interpret confuses. Just take the facts that in the OT some Prophets ordered to kill and rape children.

Victor Daniel

Wow. I never read that in the bible, Victor.